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[helmacon]

Im a supporter of compleatly randomly generated magic. The pre set spells could work if they were randomly gened. Each spell could have a random effect and a random consiquince if failed. Of course there would have to be filters to prevent bad effects and good consiqinces. ( ex. Your spell has failed and now all your skin is replaced with adimintine! Muhaha!)

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire.

[assasin]

I envision Dwarven magic being more along the line of crafting objects and building things with maybe some alchemy thrown in for good measure. (Even then alchemy should be more like chemistry/pharmacology than magic)

well if there was a large bunch of disciplines I assume dwarves would be attracted to some and avoid others. but it shouldn't mean you won't see a dwarf druid.l Just that it would be so rare that you might see one once every ten or twenty fortressess. maybe even more.

Some examples of Dwarfy magic:
Runes built into the floor that burn/freeze/shock/melt/petrify enemies that walk over them. Maybe even some larger versions that take up a 3x3 space but do more damage and/or affect EVERYTHING in a certain radius.

seems a bit too easy. I'd rather not see forts covered in magic runes and spells. Kinda defeats the point of mechanical traps. instead I'd rather see a limited number of fairly powerful spells which would be used in a startegic manne.r Now if each rune required rare gem encrusting or whatever I'd be fine. you're not going to find a lot of each gem type on a single map so you'd only be able to place four or five runes of each type. Of course that would mean that a magic effect should be fairly powerful to balance the cost, but you'd have to use some planning to figure out where each would be best used because you wouldn't be able to move them.

also, less combat oriantated ones. maybe runic versions of mist generators, plant fertilaty boosts, etc.

Enchanted armor and weapons. Ideally enchantments would not just be the boring +X damage/armor but have slightly more varied effects like increasing movement speed, increasing accuracy, critterbane(does bonus damage vs a certain creature type of category), projectile deflection, dragonfire/syndrome protection, regeneration, magma/heat protection etc...

also seems too easy. instead of every dwarf having a magic item i'd rather see four or five [powerful] magic items at most in a single fortress. Maybe a potential ingredient for an artifact could be an unplaced rune, which could give different effects based of the type of rune. also, less combat orientated enchantments.

Alchemy:
Acids of varying strengths made from various plants and minerals. There could be a new acid trap this trap would be mounted on the ceiling requiring channeling out the floor on the above z level and placing the trap there. Upon activation it would release its payload with a small aoe. Construction requires a large pot made of glass and a mechanism. As a bonus acid traps can be used to "double up" on traps in a critical hallway since they don't use the floor tile and can be manually triggered so as to be effective against [trapavoid] enemies. Acids could also be dumped in a channel or the floor creating hazards for enemy and dorf alike.
Healing pastes/elixirs could also be made from various plants. There could one that cure syndromes/disease, one that increases bone healing, one for wounds, one that produces a happy thought, etc...
Finally things like paralyzing/sleeping drafts that could be administered via blowgun or a new blowdart trap or some sort of mister trap.

how is this any different from chemistry? would it count as magic if its just chemistry with an archaic name?

Golems. Colossal stone or metal constructions animated by magic but created through solid Dwarven engineering and craftdwarfship. These things would require tons of materials to build and highly skilled dwarfs at every step of the processes but with proper materials and masterwork craftdwarfship they would be as strong as any megabeast. Materials would include dozens of metal bars/stone blocks of the same type, 8-12 mechanisms and some sort of "heart" or soulstone. Golems could be controlled similar to military squads but would not require food/drink/sleep and could be posted on patrol or guard duty indefinitely. For bonus points don't restrict the materials allowing hilarious if somewhat ineffective constructions such as soap or cheese golems

I'd call em automatons. golem doesn't really sound mechanical enough. also, to make it interesting, why not have automatons be able to be made into any shape your dwarves have tamed. so if you've tamed a dragon you'd be able to make dragon shaped automatons.

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire

I can half agree with that. while effects should be logical they don't have to be so unidimensional. maybe a firespell going wrong could leak into the enviroment and set anyone who walks past that area for a month or two on fire or it could just set alight all the booze in the fortress. or it could make everyone in the fortress immune to fire for a week.

[GreatWyrmGold]

About rune-traps: Also seems a bit off, although I don't like how you phrased it. Magical traps should be possible, but they should also require player effort, or at least expedenture of resources. Maybe a sustained trickle of diamond dust or having to recast the spell twice a season or something?
About magical items: I think dwarves should be able to make magical items, but again, it should be a difficult, special event. For instance, artifacts might have random magical effects; a powerful wizard might grant a magical axe to you; perhaps goblins could bind souls to stuff to enchant them, and maybe maybe you could learn that art; spirits could be convinced to live in stuff to grant items magic; etc.
About alchemy: Some alchemy could be like modern chemistry, but much would not. When has a chemist made a potion of any kind?
About golems and automations: Golems should be animated lumps of stuff, automations should be mechanical things, although perhaps powered by magic or guided by some magical force.
About backsplash: Obviously, I just wanted a simple example.

[Beardedwander]

seems a bit too easy

Note I did not make any mention of what it would require to build these things but yes my intention is that these should be powerful and rare reserved for a critical points not something you line up 20 of in a narrow hallway. Also it would require a specially designated engraving and the quality of the engraving would affect the power of the rune. Use of a large gem also seems like a good idea, perhaps the value of the gem could affect the power and they type of gem could determine or influence the effect.

As for enchanted gear my idea was somewhere along the line of solidified magic in the form of ore that could be alloyed with existing weapon grade materials to produce magically infused steel bars or the like, which would be made into an item and then enchanted. Specific enchantments would be randomly selected so you could end up with say ☼RABBITBANE☼ a masterwork steel battleaxe that does double damage!.. vs rabbits. Enchantments would also have quality levels.
This magic ore would be quite rare and located very deep down, the dwarven caravan might bring small quantities but it would be very expensive.

how is this any different from chemistry?

Hence why I said this would be more like chemistry/pharmacology than what most people think of when the see the word alchemy. That said the salves and potions are somewhat magical or at least much more potent than drugs or medicines we have even today. In any case I only listed a few things off the top of my head I'm sure with time we could devise a complex and powerful alchemy system that blurs the lines between magic and science.

I'd call em automatons.

I had originally called them constructs I only changed it to golems because I thought people would understand the concept better that way.

also, to make it interesting, why not have automatons be able to be made into any shape your dwarves have tamed.

I actually envisioned them as gargoyle-like with humanoid (dwarfoid?) bodies but bear/wolf/eagle/dragon/etc... shaped heads, hands and feet including any applicable claws and teeth. (All randomly chosen)

automations should be mechanical things, although perhaps powered by magic or guided by some magical force.

This is exactly what I had in mind a complex mechanical construction animated by rare and powerful magic.

[gbrngfol]

In my short time residing in this forum I thought a luck based magic system would've been best. For example a magic weapon would have a small chance to strike the chosen bodypart with surprising ease, or magic armor would occasionally repair wounds you have suffered.

[Owlbread]

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire.

But that's so boring, where is your inner Dwarf?

Although, I did like your proposal about more powerful spells bringing more bizarre/damaging/random consequences.

I also think we could do rather a lot with the idea of Golems and Dwarven culture having a more construction/crafting orientated magic system.

[GreatWyrmGold]

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire.

But that's so boring, where is your inner Dwarf?

Although, I did like your proposal about more powerful spells bringing more bizarre/damaging/random consequences.

I also think we could do rather a lot with the idea of Golems and Dwarven culture having a more construction/crafting orientated magic system.

It might be interesting to turn into a chicken after miscasting a fireball, but it might also be interesting if creatures engulfed in magma turned into elves.
Again, while dwarven magic might be focused on armor, golems, and stone, individual dwarves wouldn't need to have that restriction.

[Owlbread]

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire.

But that's so boring, where is your inner Dwarf?

Although, I did like your proposal about more powerful spells bringing more bizarre/damaging/random consequences.

I also think we could do rather a lot with the idea of Golems and Dwarven culture having a more construction/crafting orientated magic system.

It might be interesting to turn into a chicken after miscasting a fireball, but it might also be interesting if creatures engulfed in magma turned into elves.
Again, while dwarven magic might be focused on armor, golems, and stone, individual dwarves wouldn't need to have that restriction.

I'd also like to see logical consequences. E.g, screwing up a fireball doesn't turn you into a chicken, it sets you on fire.

But that's so boring, where is your inner Dwarf?

Although, I did like your proposal about more powerful spells bringing more bizarre/damaging/random consequences.

I also think we could do rather a lot with the idea of Golems and Dwarven culture having a more construction/crafting orientated magic system.

It might be interesting to turn into a chicken after miscasting a fireball, but it might also be interesting if creatures engulfed in magma turned into elves.
Again, while dwarven magic might be focused on armor, golems, and stone, individual dwarves wouldn't need to have that restriction.

I think I remember you saying that bit about magma and elves before, and I disagree with it now as much as then. It's about magic we're talking about, never mind comparing it to changing the game mechanics of realistic things to do something bizarre. Magic is a blank slate, we can do whatever we want with it.

I never said it would be a restriction on individual dwarves either, it's just a part of the Dwarven culture that their spells are more craft-orientated.

[Scoops Novel]

Golems are one of the dwarfest creations possible. Construction based magic such as runes is exceptionally dwarfy, but has been overused and crammed and squeezed and squished into niches where it doesn't fit. In my opinion, there should be common runes with little to no power, good luck charms which may or may not work and have a psychological impact more then anything. Then there should be the runes with a relatively reliable effect, discovered through either magical experimentation, relics left by other races or civilizations, or blessings or curses from the gods, though of cause they may have unknown effects to boot. However, there are also the rare times when magic flows into a word, phrase, sight sound or smell, and becomes attached to it, sometimes for an hour, sometimes an heartbeat, sometimes a century. Then there is that which is so strongly magical that even speaking it's name will stir it's magic, let alone inscribing it's effigy.

Very particular instruments and ingredients should be required for some runes, and often magical objects themselves for those of the greatest power. There should be entire different styles to runes, with artistic schools of thought amongst just one glyph differentiating it ever so slightly or enormously from it's brethren, forms of magics dancing or warring together in it's markings, some common, some entirely foreign or utterly different, some unique, and the magics you practice and the loves you hold will shape each rune you make.

Sometimes, a creation will be of such beauty, an occurrence be of such power or fickleness and willful stupidity will be so strong that all manner of strange visitors, souls, watchers, jesters, manipulators and interferer's may take a hand in it, and such an object, event or decimation could become key to a rune, or the source of a rune themselves as they mark it in history.

Metallurgy should of course be an example of dwavern magic at it's best; science, magic and skill, with an creation that every enemy will fear and your friends honor till the end of days. Runes can be a part of it, special materials another, obsessive attention to detail a given, and chanting like any dwarf should be proud of, and many a druid envy's.

To be honest, if there's anything which i can say to toady about magic, is to give it the boundlessness and uniqueness we crave, and tying it to the world it's a part of, with the influences and interpretations of every culture, every being, who has tried to use it for good or ill. Research and include as many potential traditions as possible, from sites of power, beautiful, majestic and despairing, to life and after, the elements, the body, animals and alchemy, demons and mirrors, evil and wonder. Creations both deliberate, accidental, and caused by no ones hand at all. Let magic live up to it's name.

[Frizzil]

If I may comment on the OP's organization (only to help some great ideas get off the ground), as someone who constantly receives spell suggestions for his own completely unrelated Minecraft mod...

It's not intuitive to do this, but I think you should abandon the list-iness of your ideas, narrow them down, and go into a little more depth with how your ideas will be interesting.  The juiciest part is the very last "Some things I envision with this system:", because it's brief and gives some really cool consequences of your suggestions, rather than just running through them.  The idea of raising your fallen king is genuinely amazing, and the idea of ensuring each of your dwarves has a magic sword is also fun (anyone who plays DF surely enjoys having their ducks in a row.)  Consequences are good, little details are bad

As you focus more on the mechanics, you may realize some of your ideas don't have a great justification (not to imply that they don't), and I'd encourage you to remove any that you can't justify.

Example things I'd like to know: why would splitting spells into Arcane and Divine be interesting?  Is it worth the added complexity of having two spell trees (especially when both trees have a lot of summon abilities?)  Speaking of, why the focus on summoning creatures?  Why is that appealing?  Etc.

I receive spell suggestions constantly, and it'd be a million times easier to find interesting ideas if they'd do this.  I don't care if a spell is "Fire" or "Ice" or has an explicitly defined progression, but I care if the mechanic itself is interesting.  The absolute worst is when someone has "Generic Bolt I: does 3 damage, Generic Bolt II: does 5 damage, ...", hehe.  Consequently, I've thought about making Generic Bolt a real spell

@Novel:

A great way to give magic some uniqueness and depth would be to randomly generate anything possible-- make summoning spells summon a specific creature with a random name and type (Dak'thul the Demon-Sponge!), give projectile spells a random appearance and element (Summons a great cloud of mist as the dwarf squints his eyes and shudders violently!), etc.  That would be a lot of fun

[Pyro627]

I agree that magic should be as randomly generated and dynamic as possible; predictability isn't really appropriate for dwarf fortress.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Complete randomization of magic could be quite interesting, especially when it comes down to things like enchantments.

Imagine a pair of dwarf socks that explode every time someone puts them on.

[Pyro627]

Complete randomization of magic could be quite interesting, especially when it comes down to things like enchantments.

Imagine a pair of dwarf socks that explode every time someone puts them on.

I recall someone mentioning that in another of toady's games, it was possible to teleport a creature's organs outside its body.

I expect that kind of stuff in DF, only with more exploding and rot.

[Rtyh-C]

And of course dwarves wouldn't learn and you'd blow up your entire fortress.

I think it would be interesting if magic were not something an individual dwarf could do but rather some kind of gift from gods which, at the moment, don't really do anything apart from cursing random creatures. What if you had to put stuff on an altar as offerings to a god, while asking for something in return? Maybe it could be themed, for example giving coal for a fireball, stone for a wall, leather and bones for a powerful magical creature, etc. Of course, these are everyday, common items, but you could need a lot of them, for instance 50 coal units for a fire or 500 stone units for a wall.

Of course, the god can decide not to fulfill your request if they don't consider your offering enough (oh our god, will you give us a mountain of adamantite for this stone mug?). If they're particularly angry or the request too outrageous, they might decide to turn it against you (turning all your dwarves' brains into adamantite, killing your entire population). Or they might be willing to grant your request, but fail at it.

Maybe evil gods could intercept your request and decide to attack for fun. Your civilisation's protective god could then start to fight with them, or maybe choose to betray you. Gods could form friendships and grudges with each other, or maybe even with mere mortals. Mortal women could bear the children of gods, which would grow to become powerful half-god uber-humans/dwarves/goblins/whatever. The possibilities are endless. Imagine the !!FUN!!!