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[weenog]

You're using the old it's my opinion, and opinions are never wrong dodge to justify factually incorrect statements bitching about a game that makes no pretense of being anything other than a roughly 1/3 complete alpha version, and even so is still more playable and functional than a lot of "finished" games... and you're accusing other posters of shamelessness?

You got balls, I'll give you credit for that.

[Rutilant]

This is 90% of the DF that I play, though I'm working on playing the actual game more.

I'm sorry that we couldn't get your problem to work out, hopefully Toady comes out with a version that fixes the bugs with the new hauling system soon so you can enjoy playing again.

Well, the people here certainly make it a decent way kill some time.  Even if some of it is like arguing with a particularly aggressive toddler.

You're using the old it's my opinion, and opinions are never wrong dodge to justify factually incorrect statements bitching about a game that makes no pretense of being anything other than a roughly 1/3 complete alpha version, and even so is still more playable and functional than a lot of "finished" games... and you're accusing other posters of shamelessness?

You got balls, I'll give you credit for that.

"justify factually incorrect statements"

I stated an opinion.  People told me my "opinion" was factually incorrect while their "opinion" was factually correct when both were opinions.

I reminded them that it was an opinion.  I didn't think that "in my opinion" was a necessary statement given that it should have been obvious what I was saying was an opinion.

Thanks for telling everyone about my genitalia.

Unfortunately, all I can figure out about you is that you have fingers , since you can type, and a memory, to recall what you've heard other 'clever' people say on forums and type them here without an original thought of your own.

So.. you have fingers and the ability to parrot smart people.  I'll give you credit for that.

[toomanysecrets]

Well, if you reject all versions of DF and you keep up the rage posts, you will officially kill your DF experience.

[Rutilant]

Well, if you reject all versions of DF and you keep up the rage posts, you will officially kill your DF experience.

Oh come on.  I'm waiting until it's fixed.

Besides, there was only one rage post;  That was the first two.  It did in fact specifically admit that in the title, so you're right about that.

The rest of the posts have been purely for fun, I promise.

[Sutremaine]

, why don't you just have them dump the cart next to the stockpile instead of on it?

Because then the pile has to be "takes from anywhere".

You could have the cart dump onto a 1x1 stockpile that's a copy of the final stockpile and set the final stockpile to take from the 1x1 stockpile.

[Rutilant]

, why don't you just have them dump the cart next to the stockpile instead of on it?

Because then the pile has to be "takes from anywhere".

You could have the cart dump onto a 1x1 stockpile that's a copy of the final stockpile and set the final stockpile to take from the 1x1 stockpile.

I- but--

That's a perfectly reasonable workaround.  Thanks!

Do you have one for bin stockpiles stealing from non-bin stockpiles?

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5957

[Sutremaine]

Sadly, no. You can use minecart routes to make the minecart perform the same 'lug lots of things at once' function as a bin, and it may be quicker in the long run than bin hauling. I have a route that goes from the surface and shotguns the cart into a wall and then down a 100-level drop. It's used for conveying goblin armour into the melt stockpile, since bins of that get heavy before they get full. Four squads of goblins and the cart is only 35% full.

Aggressive bin behaviour (and aggressive stockpile behaviour in general. I set the melt stockpile to accept wooden minecarts so that the dropped minecart would go straight to the route stop instead of being hauled to a furniture stockpile first, and what do the dwarves do? Lug all the wooden minecarts from the general furniture stockpile to the more specialised one. So I made an aluminium minecart) can be somewhat mitigated by having the stockpiles differentiate between stuff that you don't mind being subjected to MUST BIN syndrome and stuff that you'd rather keep out of a container. I wanted to have my dwarves take bins up to the surface, fill them with goblin clothes, and then bring them down to store the clothes in a quantum stockpile next to the depot where the worn items would be easily findable for trade, but I got a conga line of dwarves pulling clothes out of the quantum stockpile and putting them back in the feeder stockpile. Now base-quality clothing is binned in a normal stockpile and higher-quality clothing goes into the quantum stockpile. All the base-quality clothing gets sold regardless of wear level, and the good stuff is filtered according to wear level at trading time.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Minecarts aside, when dwarves actually start paying attention to stockpile settings, that's when I might start considering it playable.  I was using minecarts as a workaround for a hauling problem in the first place.
Maybe you guys are patient enough to put up with (or don't pay enough attention to) the dwarves doing things like grabbing a full (minus one) bin, taking weeks carry it over to place it on a single item, and then running back and grabbing a wheelbarrow to run it back to the stockpile,  even with input piles (which dwarves ignore because of another bug involving bins/barrels), sometimes turning off an entire industry for the entire period of time because they're carrying the bin full of job items.  But I do, and that's not 'playable' to me. 

Meh, minor issue if you don't use bins. Just my two cents.

Oh, and when I can eliminate an entire gameplay mechanic (item storage) by cramming an infinite amount of items onto one tile, in a space management game, that's cheating in my mind.  Totally irrelevant to me how you feel about it.

You have much to learn about the Ways of the Sandbox, young Padawan. For instance, DF isn't a space management game, it's more of an imbicelle management game.

PS:  Please, continue to tell me how you think I should be playing a sandbox game instead of discussing issues that stop minecarts from working and ways to work around them without cheating taking advantage of exploits which give me an unintended gameplay advantage which is somehow not cheating.

Sure.
First off, do the things suggested which avoid quantum stockpiling. Second, understand the one true(st) goal of DF: To fail amazingly. Or the second: To do as much as you can while you survive.

I'm glad you've figured out the solution, though. Seriously, if you go into a game with expectations of it being one thing and it turns out to be another, don't keep trying to pigeonhole it into your original expectations, and don't diss older versions which should be "playable" by your definition, and don't think that it won't get fixed better eventually.

[Rutilant]

Meh, minor issue if you don't use bins. Just my two cents.

You have much to learn about the Ways of the Sandbox, young Padawan. For instance, DF isn't a space management game, it's more of an imbicelle management game.

Sure.

First off, do the things suggested which avoid quantum stockpiling. Second, understand the one true(st) goal of DF: To fail amazingly. Or the second: To do as much as you can while you survive.

I'm glad you've figured out the solution, though. Seriously, if you go into a game with expectations of it being one thing and it turns out to be another, don't keep trying to pigeonhole it into your original expectations, and don't diss older versions which should be "playable" by your definition, and don't think that it won't get fixed better eventually.

I'm a little confused as to how people are divining my expectations so clearly.  I don't really want to do a point by point rebuttal, but let's see.

Sadly, bins are pretty useful when it comes to reasonably storing things without quantum stockpiling.  Stone blocks are one particular example of an item that really benefit from bins, but can't themselves be efficiently routed to various construction sites without minecarts or vast amounts of dwarfpower (which isn't really very efficient, come to think of it).  I was probably more frustrated than one might expect about this, because more efficient hauling was the one thing I was really interested in this version for.  My own hang up, so moving on;

Hah!  Imbecile management is probably more accurate, yes.  However it does totally fit the tenuous definition of space management game that I'm using as defined by TVTropes, because I think it covers the genre pretty well.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceManagementGame

Finally, the only thing wrong with old versions is that I've already played them to death;  Like a lot of people I started during the 40d update drought, so it sort of feels like been there/done that. 

Thanks for being mellow about everything;  the spite in my comments was directed at other... individuals and I feel sort of bad now that I'm reading you responding to them

[Rutilant]

Just... as a minor update, if anyone is interested, the minecart made two successful trips before it was stolen by Kea, along with the two wheelbarrows in the brick stockpile.

Damn you Dwarf Fortress and your freakishly strong wildlife!


(disclaimer;  I'm not complaining this time, it's just funny.)

[GreatWyrmGold]

Meh, minor issue if you don't use bins. Just my two cents.

You have much to learn about the Ways of the Sandbox, young Padawan. For instance, DF isn't a space management game, it's more of an imbicelle management game.

Sure.

First off, do the things suggested which avoid quantum stockpiling. Second, understand the one true(st) goal of DF: To fail amazingly. Or the second: To do as much as you can while you survive.

I'm glad you've figured out the solution, though. Seriously, if you go into a game with expectations of it being one thing and it turns out to be another, don't keep trying to pigeonhole it into your original expectations, and don't diss older versions which should be "playable" by your definition, and don't think that it won't get fixed better eventually.

I'm a little confused as to how people are divining my expectations so clearly.  I don't really want to do a point by point rebuttal, but let's see.

We're "divining your expectations" by interpreting what we have been given.

Sadly, bins are pretty useful when it comes to reasonably storing things without quantum stockpiling.  Stone blocks are one particular example of an item that really benefit from bins, but can't themselves be efficiently routed to various construction sites without minecarts or vast amounts of dwarfpower (which isn't really very efficient, come to think of it).  I was probably more frustrated than one might expect about this, because more efficient hauling was the one thing I was really interested in this version for.  My own hang up, so moving on;

Pause: Blocks are actually pretty light. So, basically, if you set up a block stockpile a bit underground, it's not too hard to get stuff built aboveground.

Hah!  Imbecile management is probably more accurate, yes.  However it does totally fit the tenuous definition of space management game that I'm using as defined by TVTropes, because I think it covers the genre pretty well.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceManagementGame

It also fits the definitions of roguelike, RTS, simulation, sandbox, and even raising sim according to TV Tropes. Let's face it, DF's hard to define.

Finally, the only thing wrong with old versions is that I've already played them to death;  Like a lot of people I started during the 40d update drought, so it sort of feels like been there/done that. 

Head over to General Discussion and ask for ideas. Or try a mod.

Thanks for being mellow about everything;  the spite in my comments was directed at other... individuals and I feel sort of bad now that I'm reading you responding to them

It's alright.

Just... as a minor update, if anyone is interested, the minecart made two successful trips before it was stolen by Kea, along with the two wheelbarrows in the brick stockpile.

Damn you Dwarf Fortress and your freakishly strong wildlife!


(disclaimer;  I'm not complaining this time, it's just funny.)

Excellent, you're getting into the right mindset.

[Sutremaine]

Sadly, bins are pretty useful when it comes to reasonably storing things without quantum stockpiling.  Stone blocks are one particular example of an item that really benefit from bins, but can't themselves be efficiently routed to various construction sites without minecarts or vast amounts of dwarfpower (which isn't really very efficient, come to think of it).

Dwarves will put bins in wheelbarrows when they're moving them (and the items inside) from stockpile to stockpile. If you want to use particular materials, you'll need to pull the blocks out of any general stockpiles into a single-material block stockpile, and then you can use wheelbarrows to move the blocks from there to the construction site. If any material is fine, you can skip the specific stockpile.

Alternatively, you could use wheelbarrows to haul the desired stone to the construction site and make the blocks there. I believe, based on a failed hauling setup, that if you order a workshop to give to a stockpile that doesn't take the produced items you can stop those produced items going into a stockpile that would normally take them.

[Rutilant]

Sadly, bins are pretty useful when it comes to reasonably storing things without quantum stockpiling.  Stone blocks are one particular example of an item that really benefit from bins, but can't themselves be efficiently routed to various construction sites without minecarts or vast amounts of dwarfpower (which isn't really very efficient, come to think of it).

Dwarves will put bins in wheelbarrows when they're moving them (and the items inside) from stockpile to stockpile. If you want to use particular materials, you'll need to pull the blocks out of any general stockpiles into a single-material block stockpile, and then you can use wheelbarrows to move the blocks from there to the construction site. If any material is fine, you can skip the specific stockpile.

Alternatively, you could use wheelbarrows to haul the desired stone to the construction site and make the blocks there. I believe, based on a failed hauling setup, that if you order a workshop to give to a stockpile that doesn't take the produced items you can stop those produced items going into a stockpile that would normally take them.

I tend to limit wheelbarrows to very particular items like stone because trying to get bins to behave with wheelbarrows has been a nightmare for me.

For example, a dwarf wants to put one brick into a stockpile.  The stockpile has a bin with 4 blocks and room for a fifth.  The dwarf will grab the bin full of bricks by hand, carry it allll the way over to the single brick, and THEN run back and get the wheelbarrow.  But... my haulers usually aren't very strong and a bin full of 4 bricks is pretty heavy, so it takes for-fing-ever.


As an update, I THOUGHT the dump-to-takefrom stockpile  solution was working until I noticed that the bins-stealing-items-from-binless-stockpiles bug was resulting in a huge stream of dwarves running the bricks back DOWN the tunnel to put the bricks in bins back in the stockpile they just came from, even though both are set to only take from links, and the outdoor stockpile (the final destination for the bricks) is the only set to take from the stockpile the bricks are presently in.

A) Links Only Workshop output pile -> B) Minecart which dumps to single tile stockpile set only to give to -> C) Links Only Outdoor brick stockpile.

I think at least 20% of my bricks end up back down in the outpile pile because dwarves are SO AGGRESSIVE about binning items. OCD little jerks.


The only workaround I can think of is to only use bins on ONE stockpile for that type of item, ever, if you want to make absolutely sure your items don't get shuffled about by dwarves with BIN MADNESS.

[Hyndis]

I've noticed that quantum stockpiles are a bit strange when using bins and barrels. If they are empty bins and barrels, which are just furniture, it works fine. But bins and barrels containing items gets sorta weird with quantum stockpiles. If you disable bins and barrels for anything you want quantum stockpiled it works great.

You can build a fortress that revolves entirely around quantum stockpiles if you want. This involves a lot of clever planning and absolute flaunting of the laws of physics and sanity, but its a lot of fun and works just fine.

Alternatively, you can simply dig out big rooms, build a lot of bins, and have huge warehouses to store your items. That also works perfectly fine.


Both are very valid ways to play the game. There is no "right" way to play DF, so long as you're having fun.

DF is immensely entertaining, particularly considering the game is only 34% through alpha, and it is also completely free.

[malvado]

DF is immensely entertaining, particularly considering the game is only 34% through alpha, and it is also completely free.

For those that have the low morale to think that the game isn't worth some money aye.
I've been having a lot of fun with Dwarf Fortress , perhaps more than I bargained and payed for, I think it's time for another donation from me soon , will definitely do so at next release

On topic :

I've personally had a lot of fun with DF's many bugs, also the Minecarts of "doom" , not sure how I managed to do what I did last night but pushing a minecart down a very trafficed (Not sure what 10 kids was doing there, honestly!) tracked way resulted in almost an instant tantrum spiral. I guess it's time to try to set up those burrows for kids more properly so they won't get snatched so often.