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[Nkosi_SW]

I've set up an observer post above the main gate of my fortress, but so far it hasn't detected a single thief or kidnapper.  Several have sauntered past in to the main fortress.  By luck, all ambushes have been detected before they reached the main gate, but I presume if they did reach the gate while invisible the result would be the same and they would not be detected.  The layout for my gate and observer post is as follows:

Code: [Select]

# wall
. floor
| raising bridge
+ fortification
w window
d door
o observer position

z level 0 - gate
  #
  ######
  |.....
  |.....
  |.....
  ######
  #

z level 1 - observer post
  ##
  +##
  +w####
  +wod..
  +w####
  +#
  ##

At the moment my observer is a vampire locked in the observer post, but I've also tried with a dog and it makes no difference. 

I read that dwarves have a 2x2x2 "observation cube" around them and that within this cube they will detect any enemies, even stealthed, even through walls and floors.  This does not appear to be the case.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong or give me suggestions for a functional observer post without losing the observing dwarf or animal to ambushes?

Thanks in advance.

[Bobnova]

As far as I can tell, dwarves cannot see stealthy things that they cannot reach out and touch.

[Necromunger]

To find hidden creatures like this i have only had luck with someone actually touching the sneeking goblin.

Chain like 4 sets of 2 dogs along the entrance, you are trying to make them touch everyone that goes in or out.

Then you will find them.

[Nkosi_SW]

Chain like 4 sets of 2 dogs along the entrance, you are trying to make them touch everyone that goes in or out.

Thanks for your suggestion, but if you read the original post, I asked for "suggestions for a functional observer post without losing the observing dwarf or animal to ambushes".

I was basing my setup partly on this thread, but now on re-reading it, perhaps the observing platform on a higher Z-level is only good for ambushes, not thieves and kidnappers?  Is that what I've got wrong?

[doublestrafe]

As far as I can tell, dwarves cannot see stealthy things that they cannot reach out and touch.

This just happened:


Thief! Protect the hoard from skulking filth!

One thing worth noting is that the observer here is Vucar Containroads the Enjoyable Depression of Mesh, Axe Lord. Due to years of diligent training, Vucar is a Proficient Observer, among many other skills. The wiki states that the Observer skill determines the range at which you can detect stealth enemies, and says that the maximum range is up to 3 tiles away (for a 7x7x7 cube). Toady One is also quoted as saying that hunting animals detect enemies from farther away than untrained animals (on the Dog page). So that's something to try.

So I suspect that any dwarf without appreciable Observer skill has a reach-out-and-touch-someone 3x3x3 cube, but at some level of Observer that expands to a 5x5x5 like Vucar's; and that animals have a 3x3x3 but hunting animals have a 5x5x5.

[Oaktree]

My fort entrances have animals (usually male birds or male cats) above them pastured on grates.  When something comes in they generally detect it as it passes underneath them, but will try to run away - so a dwarf periodically needs to go realign them every so often for a wider corridor - or you stagger the grate cells so that you have a series of 1x1 connected by doors allowing the animal/dwarf to be locked in.

And I back it up with pastured or chained watch animals further down the corridors; usually dogs initially, then replacing them with something hardier/fiercer later on.  I am currently using war trained cave crocodiles (though the post above implies that hunting trained ones would be more effective as watch animals.)

The grates should protect the animal from most threats.

[crekit]

you just need a F.R.O.G.

[Sus]

pastured or chained watch animals further down the corridors

This would be my take on the issue. Preferably a pair of hunting dogs¹ in front of the axdwarf barracks, just in front of the depot entrance. That also puts them behind a corner from the outdoors to avoid any nasty bowgoblin incidents.

¹barring, of course, more combat-oriented creatures like cave crocs or giant tigers

[malimbar04]

is the observer standing on a grate or something? I'm seeing only a funky line of sight of forward and down a level behind a window.

I would put the observer (someone trained to legendary in observation, I recommend sparring) on top of a 3-tile wide grate over the entrance. If one doesn't work, I'd put two observers, one on each side. Stealthy people tend to take the shortest path, which you should reed as "hug the wall like it's their life".

[i2amroy]

is the observer standing on a grate or something? I'm seeing only a funky line of sight of forward and down a level behind a window.

Agreed. Unless the observer is standing on a grate or is an extremely skilled (like legendary) observer they won't be able to see anything from that observation post.

[hjd_uk]

if a hunting dog has 5x4 detect so would this work?
Side View:

Code: [Select]

___   ___
wdw   wdw
# #...# #

_ : roof/floor
#:wall
w:window
d: hunting dog ( 5x5 detect range )
... : 3 wide road

Windows Stop bolts, roof stops flyers. A forbidden upwards hatch for entrance somewhere stops anyone getting in.
The windows have to be 1 z - level above any building destroyers.
This would leave the centre 1 tile-wide path invisible but the pathfinding means that enemies are most likly to hug walls and be detected.

[Iosyn]

From the design given, it looks like you want your animal to look out over and infront of your raised bridge, which given how quirky observation is won't provide much of a return. You need floor grates under it so it can see directly beneath itself. Also having the bridge in front of the dog means your spotter won't spot much of anything, since a closed bridge will mess up enemy pathfinding so nothing comes close.

just have the bridge further in your entrance tunnel and stick the pet on floor grates.

personally I just chain or pasture all my wardogs after the first turn in my entrance tunnel, that way they both observe and can rip to shreds anything that comes close.

[hjd_uk]

I also have surplus animals chained to points around the outter areas of the fort entrance, helps attract and distract enemies to give Dwarves extra time to get inside.

[Nkosi_SW]

I'll try a floor grate under my vampire (TBH I'd forgotten floor grates block arrows), and if that doesn't work I'll try a hunting dog instead.

Thanks heaps to everyone for the help and ideas.

[Iosyn]

I also have surplus animals chained to points around the outter areas of the fort entrance, helps attract and distract enemies to give Dwarves extra time to get inside.

Indeed. I've selectively walled my current embark so that most attackers will be funneled towards a certain direction. It's layered with restrained animals, cage traps and cave-in landmines. I'm trying to figure out how to flood it without killing my FPS.
Also a few fortifications really improves the odds for your bait animals. Just had some elite goblin archers pewpewing a few chicks long enough for me to activate my militia, get the woodcutters inside and throw the lever.

I'm actually kind of sad they didn't reach my cage traps.