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[Guardian G.I.]

Judging by the frequency of such incidents being reported in the news, someone in America is pushing for severe restrictions on gun ownership.

[Nadaka]

Judging by the frequency of such incidents being reported in the news, someone in America is pushing for severe restrictions on gun ownership.

Or someone is pushing for a ratings bonanza for an extra .01% increase in advertising revenue.

[Detonate]

This isn't a dude going out to kill a bunch of people.

An officer was serving an eviction notice near the school when an occupant opened fire with "automatic" weapons through the door.

I put automatic in quotes because there is no specific information on what if anything they mean by that.

Yeah, everything is pretty "MASS SHOOTINGS AT TEXAS A&M" because nobody knew what was happening. Most people and myself included thought it was a guy trying to attack the university itself. Now we know that the guy that was shooting was getting evicted. Also, he used an AR-15.

[scriver]

Judging by the frequency of such incidents being reported in the news, someone in America is pushing for severe restrictions on gun ownership.

Or someone is pushing for a ratings bonanza for an extra .01% increase in advertising revenue.

Ayup. Just like the zombie craze some months back. People pushing for gun restrictions might advantage from it, but they sure aren't causing it - and it's not like such a lobby would have enough money to compete with the anti-restriction lobby anyway, if we're going to suggest media manipulation.

[Sensei]

Also, he used an AR-15.

Well, there I was in the other thread saying how AR-15's are a very rare choice for criminals and what, four days later there's a shooting with one* that makes high-profile news? Of course, if he was being evicted for not paying the rent, he probably could have held it off for another month by selling the thing in favor of something cheaper. For all I know he could have been evicted for shooting holes in the walls or something though.

*Assuming of course that this is correct, can we get a citation for that?

[Megaman]

Just because something is rare doesn't it mean it doesn't exist.

[scriver]

Also, he used an AR-15.

Well, there I was in the other thread saying how AR-15's are a very rare choice for criminals and what, four days later there's a shooting with one* that makes high-profile news? Of course, if he was being evicted for not paying the rent, he probably could have held it off for another month by selling the thing in favor of something cheaper. For all I know he could have been evicted for shooting holes in the walls or something though.

*Assuming of course that this is correct, can we get a citation for that?

Regardless of whether it was that gun, I wouldn't call this a shooting. A "shooting" implies some sort of killing spree to me, whereas this does seem to be a more limited targeting. It would only be halfly or so relevant, I think.

[portaldruid]

so what the hell is happening? hope that the people did this will get what they deserve..

[RedKing]

so what the hell is happening? hope that the people did this will get what they deserve..

Well, the shooter died of gunshot wounds when the police returned fire, so I'd say that's taken care of.

[Nadaka]

Looks like the shooter was known by his family to have mental health issues.

This is yet another case of someone falling through the cracks of the health care system.

[Euld]

I'm starting to think those "cracks" are wide enough for planets to float through comfortably.

[RedKing]

Partly due to HIPAA. Can't release data about someone's mental health record to law enforcement unless there's probable cause to believe they constitute an imminent threat to public safety. It's not illegal to be crazy, and it shouldn't be overstigmatized. But there needs to be a happy medium. People with a history of psychosis simply shouldn't be able to purchase firearms. Period.

There's a lot of devil in the details on legislating that though.

[palsch]

It's not illegal to be crazy, and it shouldn't be overstigmatized. But there needs to be a happy medium.

I don't think that it's really a happy medium. Destigmatisation is the best and frankly only way to effective help both those with mental illness and prevent this kind of tragedy. Without actively combatting mental health stigmas law enforcement efforts to cover these cracks are futile at best, counter-productive at worst.

It's simply more important to encourage and enable people to get help for mental illnesses than it is to track them, especially if the latter discourages the former. Treatment and support are far more effective at avoiding violence. Especially given that violence is far more likely to be directed towards those with mental illness than they are to be violent towards others.

Prioritising putting restrictions on those with mental illness is simply encouraging them to hide their symptoms and avoid seeking help. In the few cases where the illness does cause potential danger that increased external threat (false perception as it may be) only makes matters worse.

Preventing people with serious mental illness from obtaining guns is not a bad idea, but drawing some sort of formal legal line about who can and can't have weapons is problematic at best, even before you get into the difficulties with enforcement.

I'd actually put a highest priority on people with depression or bipolar disorder having easy access to guns given the extremely rates of suicide attempts. But even then trying to define when they can have access to guns (or knifes, or pills, etc) legally is impossible and any attempts at enforcing such a ban would be grotesquely damaging and impractical. You need people who can care for them, notice symptoms and have their permission and trust to keep them safe.

[RedKing]

Problem being, one of the frequent things you find with mental illness is an aversion to therapy. Because that means admitting there's something wrong. (Or if you're paranoid schizophrenic, it gives THEM a chance to implant tracking devices in your teeth.)

There are a whole slew of unintended consequences that could arise no matter how you implement it. Gun owners who start suffering from hallucinations aren't going to seek help because they don't want to lose their guns. People might be more likely to fight a diagnosis of mental illness. The very definition of what constitutes mental illness would become a political issue.

Then there's all sorts of issues about thresholds. I was diagnosed depressive almost 20 years ago, and treated briefly with Zoloft. Should that disqualify me? is there a time period after which it'd be ok? What about people who are fine if medicated? but then what happens if they go off their meds (which is a frequent problem, especially for bipolar/manic-depressives)

And because of that big snarl of thorny questions I doubt very much will be done, at least at the Federal level. Might see some action at the state level to tighten laws, but then you're still running into that HIPAA wall. Can't be proactive about barring firearms purchases by people with mental illness if you're not allowed to know if they've been diagnosed with mental illness.

[Gunner-Chan]

You know I came into this thread worried sick since a somewhat close friend had recently transfered to the A&M university in Austin and I was worried this happened there. Good to see it wasn't.

Then I ran into this mental illness conversation we seem to be having now.

Problem being, one of the frequent things you find with mental illness is an aversion to therapy. Because that means admitting there's something wrong.

Okay, first up. Two problems here. Aversion to therapy is in most cases not a case of pure personal pride. It often comes from how looked down upon those with any kind of mental illness are. Even depression since often times they get told by very close friends or family just to get over it and nothing is wrong. It's that attitude that needs to go, since people with mental illness or other issues that need therapy need nothing but support and kindness from friends, familys and the healthcare system. Pushing for some form of acceptance would be the first step here. Not some kind of backdoor to more crimes committed by the mentally ill. Actively punishing the mentally ill would be the first step in completely, totally removing any hope at all of proper care being given to them.

Secondly...

(Or if you're paranoid schizophrenic, it gives THEM a chance to implant tracking devices in your teeth.)

Would you mind not saying this kind of bullshit? Some of us (Me for example) have our symptoms under control, and definitely don't like being things to point and laugh at for whatever amusement that gives you. This crap is no laughing matter, and bullshit like the above just stigmatizes things even further. And I suppose as long as TV keeps telling people it's okay to laugh at people with mental issues (Like Monk for OCD, or how people think that one guy in The Big Bang Theory is autistic and laugh at him too) this is just gonna keep repeating itself.

Anyway with that I'm out of this thread for the most part I think. That was just really bugging me.