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Author Topic: A buckler on each arm? What for?  (Read 2470 times)

pabrams

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A buckler on each arm? What for?
« on: August 12, 2012, 08:37:19 am »

I'd suggest trading them, if your military already has a buckler on each arm.

A buckler on each arm?  What for?  Each of my military dorfs only has one shield/buckler.  Is there some reason I'd want to give them two?  Won't they drop their weapon if I do that?
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MrWillsauce

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 08:40:12 am »

You can use a buckler in conjunction with a weapon. A buckler is worn on the arm, not held in the hand.
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Quietust

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 08:40:43 am »

I'm pretty sure that suggestion was semi-nonsense, since dwarves are only supposed to be able to wield 1 thing in each hand; in older versions it happened anyways, but Toady supposedly fixed that.

A buckler is worn on the arm, not held in the hand.
Not in Dwarf Fortress it isn't - aside from some differences in size and blocking ability, shields and bucklers are identical.
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pabrams

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 08:43:49 am »

You can use a buckler in conjunction with a weapon. A buckler is worn on the arm, not held in the hand.

Okay, so bucklers 'buckle' to the arm I guess, didn't realize that.  So they could each have one weapon, one shield, and TWO bucklers I imagine...

edit:  Oh maybe not, according to previous post
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MrWillsauce

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 08:44:50 am »

Quote
Okay, so bucklers 'buckle' to the arm I guess, didn't realize that.  So they could each have one weapon, one shield, and TWO bucklers I imagine...

No, I was wrong. Bucklers do require a free hand.
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Volfgarix

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 09:30:48 am »

So what's the point of making bucklers?
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Quietust

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 11:46:37 am »

So what's the point of making bucklers?
Simple - they weigh less, so you can equip them on less-trained soldiers to avoid slowing them down as much.

[edit] In 40d and earlier, shields were 3.3 times as heavy as bucklers ([WEIGHT:50] versus [WEIGHT:15]), but in 0.31 and later they're only about 20% heavier (tested in Arena mode with platinum shields/bucklers sized for a Bronze Colossus and got 9475Γ versus 7896Γ).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 11:53:49 am by Quietust »
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Volfgarix

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 12:03:23 pm »

So what's the point of making bucklers?
Simple - they weigh less, so you can equip them on less-trained soldiers to avoid slowing them down as much.

[edit] In 40d and earlier, shields were 3.3 times as heavy as bucklers ([WEIGHT:50] versus [WEIGHT:15]), but in 0.31 and later they're only about 20% heavier (tested in Arena mode with platinum shields/bucklers sized for a Bronze Colossus and got 9475Γ versus 7896Γ).

Maybe shields are heavier, but have higher chance for block.
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Quietust

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 12:44:45 pm »

Maybe shields are heavier, but have higher chance for block.
The choice is between blocking more often and attacking more often (and getting attacked less often) - as I stated, this was much more pronounced in earlier versions.
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Triaxx2

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 10:34:23 pm »

On the other hand, shield bash is a blunt attack, meaning it would be more effective with a heavier shield than a lighter buckler.
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Azated

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 10:49:12 pm »

On the other hand, shield bash is a blunt attack, meaning it would be more effective with a heavier shield than a lighter buckler.

That's the only reason you'd want a silver shield of a wooden one. Apart from the huge weight increase (which probably won't matter much in the next version anyway) they'll do the most damage possible on a bash.
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jaxler

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 12:39:49 am »

if a dwarf's highest combat skill is misc user (I could be wrong here) they will use a shield as a weapon and to block sometimes.
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Blucher

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 01:18:22 am »

I had a (badass) speardwarf with only one arm with both a shield and spear equipped. This was in 34.11. I didn't bother to check the combat reports to see if he was actually using the shield for anything however.
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lcy03406

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 02:00:31 am »

I never try it. However I saw every dwarf wield a shield and a weapon in two hands, none of them wield both in one hand.
But shield tower is still better than buckler tower, if you want to use this bug.
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Quietust

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Re: A buckler on each arm? What for?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2012, 06:12:27 am »

On the other hand, shield bash is a blunt attack, meaning it would be more effective with a heavier shield than a lighter buckler.

That's the only reason you'd want a silver shield of a wooden one. Apart from the huge weight increase (which probably won't matter much in the next version anyway) they'll do the most damage possible on a bash.
How exactly would you make a silver shield?
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.
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