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[Thorbinator]

So after losing one too many adventurers to wooden bolts through my iron helm, I decided to look into the issue.

I turns out that it is indeed a bug, and after a couple hours of arena testing I have devised a bandaid solution.

Alright, I spent several hours testing this and messing with raws in the arena

Variables that changing did nothing:
size, velocity multiplier, penetration_size in item_ammo.txt
shoot_force, shoot_maxvel in item_weapon.txt under crossbow

What I finally settled on was that this bug is some underlying factor that maximizes the damage/force/velocity of these bolts, and I can't change that.

What I could change, and did, was the glancing. When I set contact_area in item_ammo.txt to 60 (instead of 2) then copper bolts only penetrate full iron armor in the upper arms and legs. This is a bad bandaid fix, but it is far better than what is currently in the game.

Wooden is useless against any kind of armor but still good against cloth/naked, bolts above copper still penetrate armor easily. I haven't tested these bolts vs adamantine.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1285839/item_ammo.txt

Here is my modified raw. To install this fix, either change the 2 to 60 yourself, or download the text file and overwrite it in both your raws [Dwarf Fortress/raw/objects] and your saves [Dwarf Fortress/data/save/(region)/raw/objects]. If you're not sure how to implement this with a mod, I don't know either.

[Broseph Stalin]

This is a pretty good fix. Vanilla opper bolts can pierce adamantine armor but it takes a shot to the head, throat, or heart to actually kill anything. These bolts take off limbs (which is weird but hey DF) and they don't pierce armor quite so easy.

[Loud Whispers]

Does anyone even train shield user anymore?

[Replica]

Does anyone even train shield user anymore?

Who is this "shield user" fellow you are talking about?
He must be a pretty bothersome person if no one wants to train him anymore.

[Joben]

Holy crap this has to be a bug. Adjusting bolt and launcher stats does almost nothing.

I currently have them set up like this, and copper still causes about 50% chipped bones on hits to adamantine plate, and bruising severe enough to cause suffocation on body hits when it doesn't. That's with them launching at 25% normal force, and set to 20% normal penetration with 500% more surface area at the tip. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

item_ammo

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:500]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
[NAME:arrow:arrows]
[CLASS:ARROW]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:500]


[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:250]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:250]  This is just to make sure a near-weightless object doesn't go faster than the string could possibly go.
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[NAME:bow:bows]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[RANGED:BOW:ARROW]
[SHOOT_FORCE:250]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:250]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

Balance? Arguable. But for craps sake, changing the stats drastically should actualy change things! Something's gotta be borked.

[Loud Whispers]

Does anyone even train shield user anymore?

Who is this "shield user" fellow you are talking about?
He must be a pretty bothersome person if no one wants to train him anymore.

He just wants to help... Poor guy.

[Wrex]

Dem railguns man, made of of bork. You could try stealing the crossbow raws from the Post-Apoc mod, those thing are deflected by armor heavier than leather a good amount of the time.

[Thorbinator]

Holy crap this has to be a bug. Adjusting bolt and launcher stats does almost nothing.

I currently have them set up like this, and copper still causes about 50% chipped bones on hits to adamantine plate, and bruising severe enough to cause suffocation on body hits when it doesn't. That's with them launching at 25% normal force, and set to 20% normal penetration with 500% more surface area at the tip. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

item_ammo

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_BOLTS]
[NAME:bolt:bolts]
[CLASS:BOLT]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:500]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_ARROWS]
[NAME:arrow:arrows]
[CLASS:ARROW]
[SIZE:150]
[ATTACK:EDGE:10:200:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:500]


[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[SIZE:400]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[SHOOT_FORCE:250]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:250]  This is just to make sure a near-weightless object doesn't go faster than the string could possibly go.
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[NAME:bow:bows]
[SIZE:300]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[RANGED:BOW:ARROW]
[SHOOT_FORCE:250]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:250]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:15000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:10000:4000:bash:bashes:NO_SUB:1250]

Yep, something is badly broken. This is why my fix is only a bad bandaid. I experienced much of the same WTF as testing as you did.

[detroy]

Dem railguns man, made of of bork. You could try stealing the crossbow raws from the Post-Apoc mod, those thing are deflected by armor heavier than leather a good amount of the time.

Maxvel no more than 100, that's a lot of change for those mod including more bows/crossbows, change of the ammo stat is much easier.

[hector13]

Does anyone even train shield user anymore?

Who is this "shield user" fellow you are talking about?
He must be a pretty bothersome person if no one wants to train him anymore.

He just wants to help... Poor guy.

In my experience, so long as you're not fighting someone while being peppered with bolts, a high shield-user and a high weapon skill (corresponding to the weapon you're holding) can stop the majority of arrows/bolts getting through to brain you or chip your bones so something else can brain you.

[Loud Whispers]

In my experience, so long as you're not fighting someone while being peppered with bolts, a high shield-user and a high weapon skill (corresponding to the weapon you're holding) can stop the majority of arrows/bolts getting through to brain you or chip your bones so something else can brain you.

From my experience proficient shield user is enough to stop everything - bolts, arrows, darts, fire...

Except maybe elite bowmen, but you know, elite.

[k9wazere]

In my experience, so long as you're not fighting someone while being peppered with bolts, a high shield-user and a high weapon skill (corresponding to the weapon you're holding) can stop the majority of arrows/bolts getting through to brain you or chip your bones so something else can brain you.

From my experience proficient shield user is enough to stop everything - bolts, arrows, darts, fire...

Except maybe elite bowmen, but you know, elite.

Are you playing 34.11? Your experience seems very far removed from mine. All my chars these days are demigods with very high shield skill, at least Proficient, normally higher. Mostly I give them some ranks in dodge too.

And archers just *decimate* me, every time.

[Loud Whispers]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Are you playing 34.11? Your experience seems very far removed from mine. All my chars these days are demigods with very high shield skill, at least Proficient, normally higher. Mostly I give them some ranks in dodge too.

And archers just *decimate* me, every time.

Tried putting more points into agility, kinesthetic sense and strength? The first two are arguably the two most important traits for an adventurer. Good for rolls and great for movement speed.

[k9wazere]

Always High Str and High Agi, which leaves me with a speed of between 1300 and 1500.

[Loud Whispers]

Always High Str and High Agi, which leaves me with a speed of between 1300 and 1500.

With max str, agi and kin you can get to 1700-1800 speed, plus as the wiki put it:
"Most skills involving any movement at all (lots of them), and many non-skilled tasks as well are affected by Kinesthetic Sense."