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[QuantumMenace]

I tried getting the minecart filled with contaminated water. I couldn't get it to work in the magazine because the flow pushes blood into the walls. I filled it with a cleaning trough with badger blood in it and got water laced with honey badger blood [833], but when the item turned into fluid it didn't make the contaminant appear.

Urist Da Vinci: The tricky part there is keeping the carts far enough apart so they don't hit each other while firing.

Urist McSpike: The main purpose of this isn't drowning, it's bludgeoning. I need them to path in through the corridor while it's active, so I use pumps to keep the water level low enough for them to come in.

lcy03406: Huh? If you do that, the water will solidify the magma.

[lcy03406]

lcy03406: Huh? If you do that, the water will solidify the magma.

Obsidian can be formed by mixing water and magma. This results in any tiles containing both water and magma to be replaced with obsidian, and produces a large amount of steam. When dumping water via a pond zone onto magma, the water has to fall free for at least one z-level (i.e. the pond zone must be two or more z-levels above the magma). Otherwise only steam will be produced.

However I've never built a obsidian farm yet. I'm not sure about obsidian or steam.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...
Urist Da Vinci: The tricky part there is keeping the carts far enough apart so they don't hit each other while firing.
...

... and possibly make carts in other lanes unable to fall soon enough to keep the next cart from hitting them.
...

I just tested a design where, instead of falling the cart, you put an exploit trackramp perpendicular to the direction of the shot on the same tile that used to have a hole. A cart carrying water flies in at high speed, crashes into the parked cart (causing the water to fly out), and is redirected sideways onto the return track. It does still lose some or all of its speed, so I don't know if this is any better than dropping the cart.

[Urist McSpike]

Urist McSpike: The main purpose of this isn't drowning, it's bludgeoning. I need them to path in through the corridor while it's active, so I use pumps to keep the water level low enough for them to come in.

Ah, that's true.  I was just thinking about clearing out the mess afterwards, not keeping the water down during the invasion.  I'm going to have to build one of these to play with!  It looks like it will be easier to manage than my current attempt, which uses silver war hammers... (due to my lack of sand, and abundance of silver ore).  I think one full cart load would hold around 1200, which is a lot of cleaning up.

Don't building destroyers target floor grates from above? And what do you do with amphibious mounts like giant toads?

I haven't had a problem with it yet, but then I haven't had any amphibious critters come through so far.  I don't think building destroyers can destroy the grates, which are on the level below the bridge, and by the time the bridge is open, they're drowned. :p  As for amphibious critters, I'd just move my militia down to deal with them.  Or you could set it up to open into a trap grinder of some kind.

[QuantumMenace]

I just tested a design where, instead of falling the cart, you put an exploit trackramp perpendicular to the direction of the shot on the same tile that used to have a hole. A cart carrying water flies in at high speed, crashes into the parked cart (causing the water to fly out), and is redirected sideways onto the return track. It does still lose some or all of its speed, so I don't know if this is any better than dropping the cart.

From what I've seen, putting a sideways roller where the cart crashes causes the fired objects to be diverted by an angle. A ramp might do the same thing, and it probably takes more ticks to leave the tile than if a roller is used. If the cart isn't over a gap you can just crash it into a fortification without need for a stationary cart.

[DrKillPatient]

Why all the fortification/cart stopping systems in the first place? Is not the original minecart autoshotgun design simpler?

Code: [Select]

____
  # |_
__| __ <-- cart goes in this way
   \__ --> and out this way

Side view, where # is a fortification, '|' and '_' are walls and floors, and \ is a ramp. The cart hits the wall, its contents are flung one level upward and through the fortification, then drop back down to flying above ground level a few tiles later once on the other side. The cart falls and rolls elsewhere.

[QuantumMenace]

I don't know whether the wall would hinder range or speed, or cause the water item to turn into liquid prematurely. I wanted the water to stay on the same level as the goblins the entire way as well. It may be best for long-range launchers to have fortifications on the cart level as well as above.

In the case of my map, there were only two levels between the ground and the aquifer anyway (which looks to be the most common number), and I wanted it to be possible to clean the blood from the corridor, which requires it not to be above ground.

[Kofthefens]

Would you mind uploading the save? It's always easiest to poke around something in DF than understand it in pictures.

[Di]

Why all the fortification/cart stopping systems in the first place? Is not the original minecart autoshotgun design simpler?

Code: [Select]

____
  # |_
__| __ <-- cart goes in this way
   \__ --> and out this way


For some reason, contents of cart accelerated by derail ramps didn't go up, while contents of conventionally accelerated cart hitting the same wall would.

[QuantumMenace]

Di: from what I've seen, it looks like derail-accelerated carts may go right down into the gap instead of jumping across it if there's a ramp below, causing the thrown item to appear at the level the cart started at.

I tried uploading the file here: (link)

That's the first time I've ever uploaded a save so I'm not entirely sure it will work. I run mine using Phoebus tileset if it matters.

Also of note is a shooting range/metal multiplier setup using a minecart repeater and a single door.

[Urist McSpike]

That's the first time I've ever uploaded a save so I'm not entirely sure it will work. I run mine using Phoebus tileset if it matters.

Slight necro bump.  QM, the save works fine for me (but I use Phoebus also).  Did you ever get a better drainage system worked out?  Also, what's the looped track with the pressure plates, just north of the pumps?  Is that part of the launcher system, to toggle the trapdoors during firing?

[QuantumMenace]

Since then I've tried making one above ground, but I'm not happy with the results. I'd like it better if water didn't leave permanent mud all over the surface. Shooting it in freezing weather doesn't work very well either, since globs will hit ice walls and build them back towards the fortification, jamming the setup I had. Of course it was only 1 level above ground, and shot at high velocity.

I'm assuming that building destroyers will attack floor bars. Too bad, that would make better drainage. I'm thinking of making pumps in 2 rows running the length of the corridor to keep the lane between the ramps dry.

The loop track has nothing to do with the launcher. It's the repeater for my shooting range, which is on the magma forge level. It leaves the door open 18 ticks (except when starting, it's open more than 100) then closes it, blocking every bolt before it can hit the goblin. I've gone through hundreds of bolts with no waste, and melting them gives back 250% of the metal you start with. Unfortunately the opening and closing causes lag.

I'm currently trying to find a decent embark to build my next design, even with dfhack prospect it's a pain to find sites with both sand and fire clay, and decent building space above and below the aquifer.

[Urist McSpike]

Yeah, mud is annoying, and I wish it'd dry up and blow away, at some point.  Or if water simply wouldn't leave mud on rock floors.  Oh well.  Too bad we can't dig fortifications in the floors, as that would drain it nicely.  And barring a load of artifact grates, that's not a good way to go.

I'm trying to build this on my current embark - it does have freezing winters, but that shouldn't be a problem, since I'm putting it underground like your original design.  I think I'll try putting fortifications down one side, with a drainage trench below, along with pumps above.

[Gaybarowner]

Oh god its  beautiful!

[QuantumMenace]

Be careful with the freezing unless the pumps are underground as well. I think water freezing into a wall underneath a grate will deconstruct the grate. Unfortunately you can't carve down stairs instead of channeling there because pumps can't pull water through them.

Also be careful with water pushing items and creatures through fortifications.