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[Karnewarrior]

Yeah, picked a hell of time to transfer from CKII, because my game crashes now whenever I try to play it.

There's only a couple mods out for the new update though, so you're not missing very much if you can't access the workshop. I only can because I avoided the craptastic new UI update

[DeKaFu]

Giving this a multi-month bump because I finally picked this up along with nearly every DLC for around $20 from the current Humble Bundle.

So now I have to ask the opposite of the standard DLC question...
Which DLC should I not install when trying the game for the first time?

I understand that some of them are really necessary for the game to be fun, but I also understand the game can be a bit intimidating to learn at the best of times, and launching it for the first time with 17 DLCs installed might send things over the top.

Any recommendations on a good set to install that would let me get into the game with a nice balance of complexity/content, before adding the rest in later as I get a better feel for it?

I'm entirely new to the genre, for what it's worth.

Here's the complete list of stuff included in the bundle:

    Europa Universalis IV
    Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
    Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
    Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
    Europa Universalis IV: American Dream
    Europa Universalis IV: Pre-Order Pack
    Europa Universalis IV: Digital Extreme Edition Upgrade Pack

    Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
    Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
    Europa Universalis IV: The Cossacks
    Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
    Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado

    Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
    Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
    Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
    Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
    Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
    Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven

[Aoi]

How 'playable' is EU4? (Which, I'm aware, is a terrible question on multiple fronts... and given that I'm looking at the same aforementioned Humble Bundle, access to the DLCs if they make things easier are perfectly valid inclusions.)

Stellaris I found mostly intuitive (the war score thing still throws me off; one of my games had multiple battles stall at ~99% and I couldn't figure out how to end them, so I just wiped them from the galaxy) and can grab and go at any time.

CK2, on the other hand, 20 hours later and a few dozen tabs open dedicated to guides and tutorials and I'm still muddling my way through the interface, forget about executing strategy...

[Urist McScoopbeard]

How 'playable' is EU4? (Which, I'm aware, is a terrible question on multiple fronts... and given that I'm looking at the same aforementioned Humble Bundle, access to the DLCs if they make things easier are perfectly valid inclusions.)

Stellaris I found mostly intuitive (the war score thing still throws me off; one of my games had multiple battles stall at ~99% and I couldn't figure out how to end them, so I just wiped them from the galaxy) and can grab and go at any time.

CK2, on the other hand, 20 hours later and a few dozen tabs open dedicated to guides and tutorials and I'm still muddling my way through the interface, forget about executing strategy...

Very playable, especially if you're planning on acquiring the DLCs, how much of a learning curve there is depends on your goals, and there are a lot of effective strategies anyways so you can experiment at your own pace.

@DeKaFu, dont bother with Golden Century, but you might as well install everything else! They mostly flesh out pre-existing features. I can't think of anything particularly difficult off the top of my head, but estates can seem unintuitive or obstructive at times.

[Persus13]

EUIV has lot in common with Stellaris in that you're running a country, and while you have a ruler that gives certain bonuses and maluses, you're tied to the country, not the ruler's dynasty. You'll probably spend a good couple of hours in menus looking at stuff starting off, but I learned to play EUIV mainly through trial and error (and occasionally getting tips from Let's Plays). Start off by playing easier countries like Castille or the Ottomans.

The only system I'd describe as being really hard to learn is trade, but unless you're playing a nation that cares a lot about trade, going with what the game gives you and using merchants to direct trade to your home node or collecting in places where you have high numbers is pretty good. The main difference between the games is that EUIV uses mana, which is a set of resources you save up to get tech, but can also spend on a lot of other things too, and that's one of the core parts of the game.

If you're looking to jump in, but aren't sure what the game is worth to you, the $1 tier is a pretty solid starting point, although the Average Tier DLCs are definitely worth it for that price if you like the game (Most of the $17 DLCs are newer ones I don't have, so I can't comment on them).

[ZeroGravitas]

Giving this a multi-month bump because I finally picked this up along with nearly every DLC for around $20 from the current Humble Bundle.

So now I have to ask the opposite of the standard DLC question...
Which DLC should I not install when trying the game for the first time?

I understand that some of them are really necessary for the game to be fun, but I also understand the game can be a bit intimidating to learn at the best of times, and launching it for the first time with 17 DLCs installed might send things over the top.

Any recommendations on a good set to install that would let me get into the game with a nice balance of complexity/content, before adding the rest in later as I get a better feel for it?

I'm entirely new to the genre, for what it's worth.

Here's the thing: you should install all of them. (Well, yeah, Golden Century doesn't really do much... but it won't make it harder, either.)

The problem isn't them making the game more complicated. The problem is the game doesn't really make sense without them anymore. There may be a couple you could drop, but almost all of them are going to have other game balance and features relying on them. You'll basically be learning a weird, bizarro version of the game if you learn to play without all the DLCs.

[MrRoboto75]

The only system I'd describe as being really hard to learn is trade, but unless you're playing a nation that cares a lot about trade, going with what the game gives you and using merchants to direct trade to your home node or collecting in places where you have high numbers is pretty good. The main difference between the games is that EUIV uses mana, which is a set of resources you save up to get tech, but can also spend on a lot of other things too, and that's one of the core parts of the game.

I feel like the problem with trade is that for all the tinkering you can do in the trade screen, the easiest way to boost trade power is just to take more land.

[ZeroGravitas]

The only system I'd describe as being really hard to learn is trade, but unless you're playing a nation that cares a lot about trade, going with what the game gives you and using merchants to direct trade to your home node or collecting in places where you have high numbers is pretty good. The main difference between the games is that EUIV uses mana, which is a set of resources you save up to get tech, but can also spend on a lot of other things too, and that's one of the core parts of the game.

I feel like the problem with trade is that for all the tinkering you can do in the trade screen, the easiest way to boost trade power is just to take more land.

yeah, but which lands? understanding trade nodes does help you understand where you'll get the most monetary gain.

that said, yeah, you're kind of limited in your trade expanding options. for all the fancy options, like privateering, protecting trade, steering, collecting, etc., most of them don't really matter that much.

[MrRoboto75]

yeah, but which lands?

yes

[Loud Whispers]

yeah, but which lands? understanding trade nodes does help you understand where you'll get the most monetary gain.

that said, yeah, you're kind of limited in your trade expanding options. for all the fancy options, like privateering, protecting trade, steering, collecting, etc., most of them don't really matter that much.

Privateering is really useful for fucking all of your rival's trade up. Seriously, if you hold a monopoly on your trade node and you privateer the enemy's trade node, there are no downsides at all. While the income you gain from spoils of war & intercepted treasure fleets is nice, I always consider the main boon to be depriving the enemy of trade income & giving myself power projection, the extra cash just offsets the cost of sending light ships to privateer in the first place.

Protect trade just boosts trade power in the node light ships are patrolling. Very useful, light ships will pretty much always make a profit transferring trade downstream (or transferring trade power upstream) unless you do something daft like send 200 light ships to patrol the arctic ocean

Hunt ships is just to stop privateers and most of all, stop the coastal raids which the Babary slavers & Knights will do nonstop if you are the Mediterranean Christians or Ottomans respectively. It doesn't take many ships to completely protect a trade node.

Collecting trade does what it says on the tin, but you don't get the transfer bonus to your main capital node that merchants provide if you collect in another node. Thus transferring with 10 merchants to your main node will most certainly give more profit than collecting in 10 trade nodes, and definitely more profit than collecting in 2 trade nodes & steering in 8

The good thing as well is that unless you choose to play as a tall merchant republic, you can ignore trade wholeheartedly and just focus on expanding. It won't be optimal but tax & production income is enough to keep a superstrong Ottoblob state running for example, and they will still get a load of trade. Even merchant republics like Genoa or Venice can choose to form Italy and ignore the trade game

[Loud Whispers]

M8's I just got all the EU4 expansions (except COP) for £13.50 off of this here humble bundle which dies in 19 hours

Can't bloody believe it, never thought I'd ever be able to legally own this much PI DLC without taking up a career as a contraband baron. Tried playing CK2 the other day without DLC and it was just a cancerous experience all round. First time I can do EU4 without DLC that fell off the back of a truck

[pisskop]

Fourty years into my second attempt at a Georgian campaign.  Having trouble with the land - its a mishmash of cultures and geography and poor states and separatism and not enough money.

Ottobuddies have gone beserk, somehow losing greece to venice and then taking it back.  Theyve left mamaluks alone for now, and focused on the balkins mostly.  Austria and a mostly intact junior hungary have allied poland and PUed lithuania; they have the strongest alliance of the game.  Otto's been my neighbor for 20+ years now, and the best defense I have is an alliance with muscovy and their numerous other enemies.

Im at a bit of a loss for how to work this.  QQ has given way to ajam as a rival, who is too big to munch.  And the land is so against me.  My religious unity is already 60%.


Anyone have experience in this attritious part of the world?





Also, i played incan last game, and it was buggy.  As in I took over several portaguese colonies, whole colony states, before the game let me modernize.   And thats one example of odd interactions.  Others are pirate nation formation and my inability to modernize my allies or vassals.

[Digital Hellhound]

Fourty years into my second attempt at a Georgian campaign.  Having trouble with the land - its a mishmash of cultures and geography and poor states and separatism and not enough money.

Ottobuddies have gone beserk, somehow losing greece to venice and then taking it back.  Theyve left mamaluks alone for now, and focused on the balkins mostly.  Austria and a mostly intact junior hungary have allied poland and PUed lithuania; they have the strongest alliance of the game.  Otto's been my neighbor for 20+ years now, and the best defense I have is an alliance with muscovy and their numerous other enemies.

Im at a bit of a loss for how to work this.  QQ has given way to ajam as a rival, who is too big to munch.  And the land is so against me.  My religious unity is already 60%.


Anyone have experience in this attritious part of the world?

Hmm. I've been thinking about a Georgian game, but it sure sounds difficult. I suppose you could try to play tall for a while and go for religious ideas so you can get those provinces converted? That'll net you the Holy War CB, too. Developing mountainous territory is probably not very worth it, though. Is expanding north an impossibility? Snatching the Crimean trade node might be a good idea.

[ZeroGravitas]

You should be able to win wars against vastly stronger enemies by using your mountain forts.

[pisskop]

Well, I dont think Religious ideas 'saved' me, but it really helped once I finally got the admin to get that +3% missionary strength.

You mentioning crimea reminded me that I didnt give that province to the burghers, and that alone was a huge boon.  As was kicking a down genoa for their land and quite a bit of money to kickstart my conversions.  Once I got that 2 extra ducats a month I was able to snowball that.

At 1650 I lost sight of my initial campaign goal and instead spread to the Persian Gulf.  I was bloated and lost interest.  But, Ottoman allied me in that way they do when theyre waiting to backstab you, poland and lithuania were nommed on by muscovy russia and i, and Ajam's rivalry became the very large oirat, who ate Tranixionia.

Spain ran away with the game though, setting up Spainish Everything, with like 7 or 8 colonies.  They ate Naples and a good chunk of northern italy.  I really dont like how often spain runs rampant without player intervention . . .