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[Donuts]

Just casually going for Lazarus to get back into EU4 after a while. Oh, what's that? The Ottomans allied with not just France, but also Hungary?

And Russia?

...Et tu, Austria?

Guess the Kebab gets to live another day. 

[ein]

so what exactly is the point of merchant republics and the decision to found a merchant republic?

i really like the idea, and the trade league mechanic is neat, but the fact that you're limited to 20 provinces to take the decision is pretty rough, as is full economic ideas

it feels like, not only is the game easier if you just blob normally, but you can make just as much money, if not more, through trade that way

[MrRoboto75]

Trade is such a derp thing in EU4

"I could do x, y, and z with merchants to seize trade power in this node... or I could just conquer it for basically the same effect and more"

[Micro102]

I wish trade was more dynamic, too.

For example, if you had a large economic base with lots of trade power in America, the trade routes could potentially flip to flow AWAY from Europe, to represent a large amount of people buying products FROM Europe, rather than having large amounts of goods eternally flowing into Europe, even if Europe's economically fucked.

I don't think that's realistic. The populations in the colonies would just be abysmally low.

[stabbymcstabstab]

I wish trade was more dynamic, too.

For example, if you had a large economic base with lots of trade power in America, the trade routes could potentially flip to flow AWAY from Europe, to represent a large amount of people buying products FROM Europe, rather than having large amounts of goods eternally flowing into Europe, even if Europe's economically fucked.

I don't think that's realistic. The populations in the colonies would just be abysmally low.

Thing is, population is represented using development. If you have a high development, then you've got a high population. As little sense as that makes, that's how it works.

Again, one of the reasons I like the idea of the upcoming M&T population system.

I wished freaking development was dynamic like populations are in you know real life, but I guess basic programming and QoL is to much for the EU4 team.

[ein]

I wished freaking development was dynamic like populations are in you know real life, but I guess basic programming and QoL is to much for the EU4 team.

well there are a few events that emulate that

the issue with dynamic shit in general is that the more you program in, the more resources it takes up. the game already starts to chug in the later years, and especially during massive wars like the league wars. pulse events aren't perfect, but they're a nice way to add dynamicism without further slowing the game. it would be nice if there were more of them tho

my main issue is that the game just does not allow for playing tall at all

merchant republics are inherently shit aside from the few that start as merchant republics thanks to the province limit required for taking the decision (on top of the massive stab hit), and development is far too costly. it's, like, what, base of 10 admin per development to core a province? but on average 50+ to actually put points into development

even stacking modifiers for development cost, it's still cheaper to just blob

you can't even compensate for it by creating loads of subjects thanks to the liberty desire from development vassals and marches get. haven't played around with client states enough to know if they would work well, but those are relatively late-game. if you still have only 20 provinces by the time you get access to them, you're either bad at the game or you've seriously gimped yourself for a gimmicky gov't type

[stabbymcstabstab]

I wish trade was more dynamic, too.

For example, if you had a large economic base with lots of trade power in America, the trade routes could potentially flip to flow AWAY from Europe, to represent a large amount of people buying products FROM Europe, rather than having large amounts of goods eternally flowing into Europe, even if Europe's economically fucked.

I don't think that's realistic. The populations in the colonies would just be abysmally low.

Thing is, population is represented using development. If you have a high development, then you've got a high population. As little sense as that makes, that's how it works.

Again, one of the reasons I like the idea of the upcoming M&T population system.

I wished freaking development was dynamic like populations are in you know real life, but I guess basic programming and QoL is to much for the EU4 team.

They abandoned it because in EUIII you'd wind up with everywhere having the max population. Since apparently artificial caps dependent on how well developed a province is and the terrain etc (ie what the M&T team is using) are too difficult to code or come up with or what ever.

It's just one of the things that really annoys me.

I really doubt their competence sometimes they're so hit or miss, I mean they could made development state-based or a way to raise all the provinces with 3 mil development to 4 or something. Instead a have to weigh the profit/cost of doing on providence at a time.


and Ein like I said hit or miss and I'm pretty sure the suits are a major factor in this plus shit swedish work ethic.

[ein]

oh yeah while i'm at it, buddhist mechanics are kinda shit

the bonuses for maintaining neutral karma are very nice, but the karma hits from declaring war in the first place, and taking land, aren't even close to made up for by the karma gains from releasing nations and returning cores

and while you're busy trying to make everyone get along, your neighbours are blobbing and eating up all the tiny little nations you're releasing for the sake of karma

[Loud Whispers]

Maybe the point is that Buddhism is not a good religion to base imperial expansion upon

Shakti/Shiva Hinduism, Sikhism or Islam are preferable alternatives, I prefer Shia to Sunni for the morale bonus, plus if you're conquering loads of Hindu provinces then the Sunni bonus to TOTF is not that useful

[ein]

i'll concede that those are generally stronger for imperialist expansion, but at the same time, that's really all the game focuses on. like i said while ranting about merchant republics, the cost to expand is drastically cheaper than the cost to improve land you already have

keeping subjects doesn't really help either, between liberty desire from development and the relations limit

while you do get a ton of karma from forcing nations to release other nations and return land, anything outside of your relations limit is just going to be eaten up again. buddhists also shouldn't get the prestige hit from using the return province interaction

that said, the bonuses from neutral karma are very powerful and if you do manage to balance them early on, it's honestly negligible to sit at permanent -1 dip rep once you unlock imperialism

[Loud Whispers]

Ming can play a game without expanding, since they're already the big big cheese and can spend all their time developing their farmlands and plains. Also I suppose Japanese Buddhism would be pretty radical, since a -5% discipline is not that severe with East Asian space marines and -1 dip rep is only an issue dealing with Korea, which usually gets invaded. Stack the 5% discipline with Japanese ideas? Dank. Pick Theravada for morale bonus or Mahayana for tolerance of every East Asian religion (MAXIMUM EXPANSION) and Japanese Buddhist conquest can become very fun.

Though I get your point the karma system seems really poorly balanced. The Orthodox and Muslim religions get that cool dynamism where they can tool their state towards a weak religion and high taxes or research, or for more manpower, morale and missionary bonus. Orthodox transition over time, Muslim through decisions and warfare (their diplomatic actions affecting piety making much more sense than Buddhism too). I reckon Buddhism having a slider that is affected by too much time at war or too much time at peace would be neater

[ein]

personally i'd like to see more interesting mechanics that go beyond sliders that give you varying bonuses and/or penalties. imagine if buddhists got other benefits from having good relations with other nations, like cheaper development cost. that would synergise well with the concept of a religion that rewards being nice to other, smaller nations

i know the next patch is adding in tributaries as subjects that don't take up a relations slot, not sure if that'll be available to anyone but ming, but a similar system to that or protectorates could be used for buddhist nations so they can maintain more neutral karma without leaving the tiny nations they release free to be gobbled right back up by hungry neighbours. if nothing else, making guarantees free for buddhists would help a ton with karma management

one thing in particular i also really want to see is some form of syncreticism for shinto, which would accurately reflect historical shinto. could be something that adds more dynamicism to the ikko ikki and kurishitan events than just whoops this one random province is catholic now. i'll have to try out buddhist japan sometime tho. last time i played japan was before i started playing ironman, so i'm missing all of the achievements for japan

the various extra faiths in ck2 would be nice to have too. the bonuses exist in-game already, seeing as you can get them through the ck2 save converter, it'd just be a matter of putting them in the game proper

[Loud Whispers]

personally i'd like to see more interesting mechanics that go beyond sliders that give you varying bonuses and/or penalties. imagine if buddhists got other benefits from having good relations with other nations, like cheaper development cost. that would synergise well with the concept of a religion that rewards being nice to other, smaller nations

That actually makes loads of sense

i know the next patch is adding in tributaries as subjects that don't take up a relations slot, not sure if that'll be available to anyone but ming, but a similar system to that or protectorates could be used for buddhist nations so they can maintain more neutral karma without leaving the tiny nations they release free to be gobbled right back up by hungry neighbours. if nothing else, making guarantees free for buddhists would help a ton with karma management

Does vassalization or guarantees affect karma?

one thing in particular i also really want to see is some form of syncreticism for shinto, which would accurately reflect historical shinto. could be something that adds more dynamicism to the ikko ikki and kurishitan events than just whoops this one random province is catholic now. i'll have to try out buddhist japan sometime tho. last time i played japan was before i started playing ironman, so i'm missing all of the achievements for japan
the various extra faiths in ck2 would be nice to have too. the bonuses exist in-game already, seeing as you can get them through the ck2 save converter, it'd just be a matter of putting them in the game proper

BOGOMILISTS FOR THE WORLD

[WealthyRadish]

A tributary system would be extremely useful for representing the mandala system of southeast asia, the principalities of India, all the steppe hordes and tribal nations in general, and is perhaps the single most useful tool missing from diplomacy. So I give it an 80% chance that it's limited to ming and hardcoded to the point of uselessness (and maybe sold as DLC?).

[ein]

Does vassalization or guarantees affect karma?

unfortunately not, but honouring defensive calls is a massive karma boost, so guarantees can provide you with karma indirectly. the issue is, guarantees take up a relations slot, so they're effectively useless on minor neighbours that aren't already your allies or vassals. personally, i basically only use guarantees to speed up the process of hitting +190 relations so i can vassalise a nation, which is why i think buddhists should get guarantees for free

i can't remember if giving land to a vassal through the subject interactions increases karma, but forcing a nation to return cores to your vassal gives a massive karma boost, just like returning cores to a non-subject nation. similarly, you will always gain karma through the return province action, albeit at the cost of prestige

vassal feeding synergises fairly well with buddhists' early game, so long as you still keep yourself big and powerful enough to keep liberty desire down, but that's generally one of the best strategies for early-game expansion anyway

A tributary system would be extremely useful for representing the mandala system of southeast asia, the principalities of India, all the steppe hordes and tribal nations in general, and is perhaps the single most useful tool missing from diplomacy. So I give it an 80% chance that it's limited to ming and hardcoded to the point of uselessness (and maybe sold as DLC?).

ahaha yeah. who knows tho, they might add it in as part of the free content with the next expansion