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[Sheb]

Yeah, pretty much. After all, when European arrived IRL, North American still lived in the stone age.

[Sergarr]

Then why do they even have their own countries? The game already have a mechanic for dealing with stone age people: natives.

[Baffler]

To model the more organized resistance that occasionally sprung up, so nations can ally with native groups, and so a particularly insane player can try to repel the colonial powers.

[Sheb]

Well, they can (and do) westernize.

[Sergarr]

Isn't westernization basically an unsurvivable affair unless you're a literal powerhouse and can kill rebels at the speed of light?

[LordSlowpoke]

you can take infinite loans now

slam your home with harsh treatment, put a stack of 16 over it

i think you can buy western mercs when westernizing, but the troops aren't that much better anymore

but yeah you gotta take down most rebels at the speed of fast you can just accept demands of peasants i guess

[kaian-a-coel]

Because you can't interact with this kind of natives. Or play as them.

[Sergarr]

infinite loans

wat

how d u bankrupt now then

[LordSlowpoke]

infinite loans

wat

how d u bankrupt now then

m8 the amount of loans you can take now is obscene

if you're keeping track with ddr, he can take 40k ducats of loans if he wanted to

i have no bloody idea what this runs on, probably something related to national income, but marvin (that german i linked a fair bit ago) uses that as a cornerstone of his shenanigans so it must be op

[Teneb]

infinite loans

wat

how d u bankrupt now then

m8 the amount of loans you can take now is obscene

if you're keeping track with ddr, he can take 40k ducats of loans if he wanted to

i have no bloody idea what this runs on, probably something related to national income, but marvin (that german i linked a fair bit ago) uses that as a cornerstone of his shenanigans so it must be op

I'm pretty sure loans are also what makes byzantium playable since they are doomed otherwise.

[a1s]

Yeah, pretty much. After all, when European arrived IRL, North American still lived in the stone age.

That is a true, but misleading sentence. 'Stone' age refers to the state of material science- Amerindians didn't know copper or iron. They did know woodcrafting, and had social structures rivaling the low middle ages. On the balance, they could be more likened to the Germanic tribes of 0AD then cavemen.

[stabbymcstabstab]

Actually Amerindians weren't at stone age level tech when Euros first arrive, my tribe use to use copper for a lot jewelry, but a few plagues from the good old trade route killed 90% of the Amerindian population. What Paradox should do is work on properly modeling plagues. That would lead to a lot more interesting games since you go first reach the west see massive empires and return fifty years later and see vast stretches of nothing. But nooooooo that would mean that France and the rest of Western Europe wouldn't be stupidly more powerful then they were.

[Eagle_eye]

Yeah, tech is screwed up in EU. Mesoamerica, the Inca, and sub-saharan Africa should probably start out at a much lower tech level than Europe and Asia, and north american hunter-gatherers lower still, but there's no decent reason that they shouldn't be able to advance just as fast as Europe if they manage to, unlike what happened historically, maintain powerful states post-contact. And Asia should really only fall behind Europe if internal problems get really bad, except perhaps in diplomatic tech. Historically, western armies were frequently defeated until the beginning of the industrial revolution, and China and India both had comparable, if not better, productivity than Europe.

[Catastrophic lolcats]

Native Americans get +250% cost because their unique native "advancement" mechanics introduced in CoP can increase each tech category by 100%, putting them back on par with Mesoamericans. NAs are actually really powerful (in singleplayer at least) if you know how to exploit their native system and can create massive empires that can keep the european colonisers out easily.

Sadly they were nerfed big time with the westernisation change and now have to go through the painful experience of trying to westernise for centuries or fall behind massively in tech. Hopefully that will be fixed one day when Johan finally tries to play a NA in a multiplayer match and gets destroyed.

Still Mesoamericans are probably the worst tech group in the game. They have a massive tech cost (150%), few potential rivals (goodbye leader points), no unique mechanics, generic ideas, forgettable units, pagan religion and generally start closer to the colonisers.
I've been trying to get the Sunset Invasion achievement and even with protectorate cheese I just can't make a decent beachhead in Europe. Your mighty Jaguar Warriors fall like paper to the European guns and drums and drums and guns. 

[Sergarr]

Have you tried making a beachhead in Ryukyu?