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Author Topic: Europa Universalis IV  (Read 467369 times)

a1s

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1575 on: August 21, 2014, 10:49:22 am »

I'm sure somebody will exploit the hell outta that core abandoning mechanic. Because there is pretty much no other way to realistically use it.
I don't want to watch an hour long video, so
I'm assuming the logical thing: you can abandon cores on foreign soil. If that's true, then the underlying reality isn't so much "we actively renounce our claim on that territory, may it burn forever in hell fire", but more of "tell the diplomatic corps to stop mentioning how outrageous it is that territory isn't ours at every dinner. It's... no longer a priority".
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Micro102

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1576 on: August 21, 2014, 02:08:37 pm »

I have to say not being able to abandon a core is a bit silly. I got a piece of territory int he new world that got cut off from the shore and thus I couldn't core it. No point in letting it sit there giving me negative prestige.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1577 on: August 21, 2014, 03:55:36 pm »

That's the whole original point of a core though, is that in the eyes of the people it is your territory.  If you don't control it people will think less of you, that's just how it is.

Of course it used to be it took 60 years for a territory to become core.  Now its like ~2 unless you intentionally wait.  Letting them be abandoned at will just makes it weirder.  If they're just going to let cores be created and destroyed at the drop of a hat they might as well start calling them something else because they're nothing like how the mechanic worked in older games.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1578 on: August 22, 2014, 04:51:43 am »

so during one of ddr's ryukyu streams, a certain other streamer was mentioned

namely legendarymarvin

hope you speak german

demonstration: chimu fuckery

marvin doesn't even have any pretenses of giving a fuck, though, as noted by what i think was rampant savescumming in the demonstration video

he's also credited with defeating otto as albania
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Rakonas

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1579 on: August 22, 2014, 08:19:54 am »

That's the whole original point of a core though, is that in the eyes of the people it is your territory.  If you don't control it people will think less of you, that's just how it is.

Of course it used to be it took 60 years for a territory to become core.  Now its like ~2 unless you intentionally wait.  Letting them be abandoned at will just makes it weirder.  If they're just going to let cores be created and destroyed at the drop of a hat they might as well start calling them something else because they're nothing like how the mechanic worked in older games.

Cores mean nothing except that they cost x mana and provide y numerical benefits. There's no consistent logic as to what a core is that can really be applied. In EU3 it was tenuous and almost believable but in EU4 it can't be that people consider the provinces to be yours, since forming countries only gives you claims (each of which would only take a year to fabricate anyway). Better that you can drop cores because you can have your cores "revoked" in peace deals, as if the people of your country will forever forget that some province was once a part of your nation just because you lost a second war.
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Catastrophic lolcats

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1580 on: August 22, 2014, 08:44:25 am »

First Art of War Dev Diary has been up for a while.

India is looking pretty damn good. Even more provinces for glorious Kochin to spread the empire of pink.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 08:47:13 am by Catastrophic lolcats »
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a1s

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1581 on: August 22, 2014, 08:45:35 am »

Cores mean nothing
Cores mean too much, actually. The core is an amalgamation of 3 interconnected, but very different concepts:
  • "The world is more or less in agreement we have a claim on this land"
  • "Our own people are more or less in agreement the land ought to be ours "
  • "The locals of this land are more or less in agreement that our country should rule them"
It's like putting taxation level and economic prosperity into one variable (which is another thing EU does).
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Dutchling

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1582 on: August 22, 2014, 08:46:59 am »

EU doesn't really have local taxation level. Not saying that's better than combining the two, but they are really not combined.
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a1s

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1583 on: August 22, 2014, 08:59:53 am »

EU doesn't really have local taxation level.
Well, no. However half the fluff refers to the base tax value as taxes and the other half as the economy.
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kaian-a-coel

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1584 on: August 22, 2014, 09:14:50 am »

EU doesn't really have local taxation level. Not saying that's better than combining the two, but they are really not combined.
AoW will add that it seems, with the "local autonomy" variable, counted per province. it's a negative % modifier to the tax income.
So base tax will be the economy, and local autonomy represent the local taxation of that economy.
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Culise

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1585 on: August 22, 2014, 09:39:30 am »

EU doesn't really have local taxation level. Not saying that's better than combining the two, but they are really not combined.
AoW will add that it seems, with the "local autonomy" variable, counted per province. it's a negative % modifier to the tax income.
So base tax will be the economy, and local autonomy represent the local taxation of that economy.
Local autonomy will actually represent practical control by the central government, and only indirectly taxes, which could potentially lead to even more potential issues with conflation of disparate concepts.

That said, the India improvements look quite interesting.  One step closer to Bengali Universalis.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2014, 09:42:20 am by Culise »
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Catastrophic lolcats

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1586 on: August 29, 2014, 05:29:52 am »

New Dev Diary.
Spoiler: the important (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 05:32:03 am by Catastrophic lolcats »
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Sergarr

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1587 on: August 29, 2014, 07:40:18 am »

Cue somebody immediately finding a way to enforce AI to make you it's March and then exploiting the resulting bonuses to conquer the world.
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a1s

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1588 on: August 29, 2014, 09:35:01 am »

Cue somebody immediately finding a way to enforce AI to make you it's March and then exploiting the resulting bonuses to conquer the world.
You can't declare wars as a vassal.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Europa Universalis IV
« Reply #1589 on: August 29, 2014, 01:00:57 pm »

[spoiler=the important]Marches
Marches are a new type of subject that can be created from existing vassals. By designating your vassal as a March, you are giving that vassal greatly expanded autonomy in exchange for greater military service. A March does not pay taxes to its Overlord and cannot be diplomatically annexed. However, they get a 25% bonus to manpower, a 30% bonus to force limits and have 20% better fort defense, making them useful as military buffers against enemy states, or when you simply need additional soldiers more than you need the income from those territories. March status can be retracted, but doing so results in a stability hit and a very large opinion penalty with the vassal whose autonomy you just revoked.


O...kay... There's no reason to make marches, then. Your vassal simply gets free manpower and doesn't have to pay you money [one of the main ways I limit vassal power is limiting their income], yet you can't ever diplo-annex or force them to allow you to control their soldiers [leaving it up to the simply god-awful war AI to let them control their soldiers for you]. Why would I make a march? There's literally 0 benefits to the real life player in this situation. Just gives the shitty diplomatic AI another reason to not be a good vassal despite you having created the entirety of their nation.


Expanding on this, WHY would I ever need a march? One situation where a totally useless vassal that you can't directly control the military of being more useful than a vassal who pays you income and can be annexed. I can't think of it. The only possibility of marches being useful is if they make it so your vassal has +200 relations. Otherwise the AI simply will break off as soon as it can with the free soldiers and money it [thinks] it has.

By the time you're hand-crafting marches to 'defend your empire from outside forces' you've already blobbed to the point that your own manpower is likely plenty, plenty enough. The only time a march would be useful is in early blobbing [if the AI was useful at warring, which it's not], but the thing is.. after you blob.. you don't need to make little vassals to give you 1k or more troops than another vassal type. Especially if it just becomes a roadblock to expansion forever.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2014, 01:07:29 pm by Mictlantecuhtli »
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