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Author Topic: God damn it California.  (Read 20712 times)

Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2012, 12:25:44 pm »

Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.
Our second amendment was written to ensure that the populace could overthrow a corrupt government, the revolutionary was started because the british tried to disarm the american populous. Dutchling, if you don't think a gun is necessary to defend yourself you can always not buy one, You can also trust your government to always have your best interests in mind, whatever floats your boat.
I'd just like to point out that the British were attempting to disarm the citizenry by marching on the armory. In other words, their weapons were stored in a secure location, not in their houses. Just as National Guardsmen and Army soldiers don't take their rifles home with them at the end of the day (outside of a war zone).

Even though I think the "armed citzenry to defend against the government" argument is ludicrous in this day and age (really? the DoD can target you FROM SPACE and hit you with a remote-piloted drone. Your popgun isn't going to be much help.), I'd be willing to entertain the fiction if 2nd Amendment fanatics remembered the whole text. A bunch of random yahoos with random firearms is NOT a "well-regulated Militia". It's a mob with guns.


The Federal government already had similar measures in place banning conversion kits, until Congress let the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expire. All this is, is California rebuilding that Federal law at the state level, since they still had their own state-level assault ban on the books.
It's the principle of the matter, personally I think a few million pissed off people, each armed with a gun would have a fair chance of committing a small change in policy.
Quote from: RedKing
The Federal government already had similar measures in place banning conversion kits, until Congress let the Federal Assault Weapons Ban expire. All this is, is California rebuilding that Federal law at the state level, since they still had their own state-level assault ban on the books.

Yep. California is trying to accomplish what the US Gun Lobby has been spending millions a year to prevent from happening in Congress. It should have been law a decade ago that modifying a semi-automatic weapon into an assault weapon is illegal. But the gun lobby, arguing for the 2nd amendment and unregulated sales at gun shows, have continued to prevent that from coming to pass.

So I say good on California, for doing what nationally we cannot because special interest groups have Congress by the balls.
Yes, converting a semi-automatic weapon into a semi-automatic weapon into a semi-automatic that's easier to change magazines.
"unregulated gun show sales" What do you think people go into gun shows buy truck loads of AK-47's with the serial numbers filed off without filling out any paper work? Have you ever bought a gun, been to a gun show, or even in a gun store?
I live in Australia, and while I think gun laws are unreasonably harsh over here, American ones are simply insane. Legally owned GRENADE LAUNCERS AND FLAMETHROWERS are ridiculous. AR's and machine guns should be heavily prohibited. Thing is, taking away all the guns is bad. People will simply find them in an illicit manner. Look at drugs. Banning them just started an illicit trade. All in all, this is too drastic. Moderation is key here.
ARs are typically hunting rifles in the united states, and a vast majority of them are semi-automatic. Personally I think ARs look horrendous, which is why I don't own any, besides virtually noone makes wooden furniture for them.
Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.
I think a 12gauge shotgun with 00-buck is far better than a pistol.
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Darvi

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2012, 12:25:45 pm »

Speaking of flamethrowers, why to people want to ban firearms? Those people who have them should be put in a hospital, not banned.
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2012, 12:28:18 pm »

Speaking of flamethrowers, why to people want to ban firearms? Those people who have them should be put in a hospital, not banned.
People who own firearms, or fire arms? Because a case of fire arms would require a trip to the hospital.
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kingfisher1112

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2012, 12:28:50 pm »

I'm not a shotgun person, too much recoil. I did try some bird frite, and that was fun though. I prefer light kick 22.s and perhaps the odd 223.
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nenjin

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2012, 12:29:22 pm »

Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.

And your reasoning is....what? For what firearms are supposed to be for, what exactly are you preserving by not limiting the ability to shoot over 30 rounds in a few seconds, other than weekend fun?

Quote
What do you think people go into gun shows buy truck loads of AK-47's with the serial numbers filed off without filling out any paper work? Have you ever bought a gun, been to a gun show, or even in a gun store?

As a matter of fact, yes. There are mandatory background checks at gun stores. The same does not hold true of all gun shows, particularly because they're mobile. No, people do not pull up with a truckload of obviously illegal assault weapons. They do show up to gun shows with assault weapons, however. And conversion kits that may not be legal in every state.

And the difference between maintaining a gun store and being regulated by the government and registering at a traveling gun show as a vendor is sizable.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:32:09 pm by nenjin »
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kingfisher1112

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2012, 12:33:22 pm »

Weekend fun indeed. They are for sport. Shooting 30 rounds is probably fun( Damn you australia)
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Loud Whispers

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2012, 12:43:35 pm »

I love the US. I know this is true somewhat, but the idea of someone legally owning a flamethrower to pursue a losing fight against an invading swarms of bugs is just that ridiculously fun. It sounds just like a bad hollywood movie !
Hmmm.... Well I could see insect exterminators using any means possible to hinder the expansion of a lethal invading species, those things absolutely wreck local ecosystems.
And while a permanent solution is being researched by panicking biologists, I could see the possibility of using flamethrowers to kill swarms of the pests. Isn't there one state that has 16 swarms they can't get rid of because of lack of funding? I think it's Texas.
Yeah it's Texas. Apparently just using insecticide makes the bees go crazy and kill everyone.


You can keep them I believe. The 'home defense' argument cannot apply to them of course.
What if somebody comes at you with a fortified bunker? How will you defend yourself then?
OH GOD LEGALIZE BATTLE TANKS

RedKing

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2012, 12:48:50 pm »

Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.

And your reasoning is....what? For what firearms are supposed to be for, what exactly are you preserving by not limiting the ability to shoot over 30 rounds in a few seconds, other than weekend fun?

Quote
What do you think people go into gun shows buy truck loads of AK-47's with the serial numbers filed off without filling out any paper work? Have you ever bought a gun, been to a gun show, or even in a gun store?

As a matter of fact, yes. There are mandatory background checks at gun stores. The same does not hold true of all gun shows, particularly because they're mobile. No, people do not pull up with a truckload of obviously illegal assault weapons. They do show up to gun shows with assault weapons, however. And conversion kits that may not be legal in every state.

And the difference between maintaining a gun store and being regulated by the government and registering at a traveling gun show as a vendor is sizable.
^^^^^ This.

Gun shows are a massive loophole in the regulation framework.



Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.
Our second amendment was written to ensure that the populace could overthrow a corrupt government, the revolutionary was started because the british tried to disarm the american populous. Dutchling, if you don't think a gun is necessary to defend yourself you can always not buy one, You can also trust your government to always have your best interests in mind, whatever floats your boat.
I'd just like to point out that the British were attempting to disarm the citizenry by marching on the armory. In other words, their weapons were stored in a secure location, not in their houses. Just as National Guardsmen and Army soldiers don't take their rifles home with them at the end of the day (outside of a war zone).

Even though I think the "armed citzenry to defend against the government" argument is ludicrous in this day and age (really? the DoD can target you FROM SPACE and hit you with a remote-piloted drone. Your popgun isn't going to be much help.), I'd be willing to entertain the fiction if 2nd Amendment fanatics remembered the whole text. A bunch of random yahoos with random firearms is NOT a "well-regulated Militia". It's a mob with guns.
It's the principle of the matter, personally I think a few million pissed off people, each armed with a gun would have a fair chance of committing a small change in policy.
So I guess those people in Aurora were just martyrs of the hypothetical future revolution that will never happen? At least they died for a noble cause.  ::)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 12:53:02 pm by RedKing »
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2012, 01:02:26 pm »

Quote
Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.

And your reasoning is....what? For what firearms are supposed to be for, what exactly are you preserving by not limiting the ability to shoot over 30 rounds in a few seconds, other than weekend fun?

Quote
What do you think people go into gun shows buy truck loads of AK-47's with the serial numbers filed off without filling out any paper work? Have you ever bought a gun, been to a gun show, or even in a gun store?

As a matter of fact, yes. There are mandatory background checks at gun stores. The same does not hold true of all gun shows, particularly because they're mobile. No, people do not pull up with a truckload of obviously illegal assault weapons. They do show up to gun shows with assault weapons, however. And conversion kits that may not be legal in every state.

And the difference between maintaining a gun store and being regulated by the government and registering at a traveling gun show as a vendor is sizable.
^^^^^ This.

Gun shows are a massive loophole in the regulation framework.
To buy an automatic weapon you have to get a tax certificate from the ATF, you have to get finger printed. Hell to buy any weapon you have to go through a FFL and you have to pass a background check. Gun shows are still regulated by the government, they all have to keep records.


Personally I think that the home Defence argument is bullshit for anything more than a pistol. But really, you should not be limiting semi automatic firearms, or fully automatic ones for that matter.
Our second amendment was written to ensure that the populace could overthrow a corrupt government, the revolutionary was started because the british tried to disarm the american populous. Dutchling, if you don't think a gun is necessary to defend yourself you can always not buy one, You can also trust your government to always have your best interests in mind, whatever floats your boat.
I'd just like to point out that the British were attempting to disarm the citizenry by marching on the armory. In other words, their weapons were stored in a secure location, not in their houses. Just as National Guardsmen and Army soldiers don't take their rifles home with them at the end of the day (outside of a war zone).

Even though I think the "armed citzenry to defend against the government" argument is ludicrous in this day and age (really? the DoD can target you FROM SPACE and hit you with a remote-piloted drone. Your popgun isn't going to be much help.), I'd be willing to entertain the fiction if 2nd Amendment fanatics remembered the whole text. A bunch of random yahoos with random firearms is NOT a "well-regulated Militia". It's a mob with guns.
It's the principle of the matter, personally I think a few million pissed off people, each armed with a gun would have a fair chance of committing a small change in policy.
So I guess those people in Aurora were just martyrs of the hypothetical future revolution that will never happen? At least they died for a noble cause.  ::)
Right, it's of course the guns fault that his psychiatrist did nothing, even though he told her what he was planning, or the school. Nope it's because of the second amendment that crazy kill people people. Good argument.

The same laws that apply to gun stores apply to gun shows
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 01:09:26 pm by Kilroy the Grand »
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darkrider2

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2012, 01:09:44 pm »

You can keep them I believe. The 'home defense' argument cannot apply to them of course.
What if somebody comes at you with a fortified bunker? How will you defend yourself then?
OH GOD LEGALIZE BATTLE TANKS
[/quote]

Don't we have paramilitary groups in the US?
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MonkeyHead

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2012, 01:10:07 pm »

The fact that the guy had relativly easy acces to guns made it so much worse (or much easier to carry out) than it would be if he had heavily resticted or no access to firearms.

alway

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2012, 01:17:20 pm »

Yeah it's Texas. Apparently just using insecticide makes the bees go crazy and kill everyone.
Please tell me you did not just link to Weekly World News unironically. D:

Just so you know, they're basically The Onion of tabloids; and from whence 'bat boy' came.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weekly_World_News
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2012, 01:19:41 pm »

Don't we have paramilitary groups in the US?
There's the millitia movement, a few Neo-Nazi compounds, and some religious extremist small towns, but all of those have some overlap and aren't very big. The more legal and sane ones would include the more armed subgroups of the CIA and FBI. There's also the mercenaries, but I'm not sure how many of them actually live in the US itself. Blackwater/Xe/Whateveritiscallednow also got itself in some trouble recently. Not much for paramilitary in the US.

Anyway, I continue my general stance of opposition to the gun control lobby. (Oh, and having flamethrowers be legal isn't much of an issue. Flamethrowers are pretty terrible as weapons unless your opponent is hiding in a cave. Their use in pest control is far superior.)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 01:25:47 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2012, 01:21:32 pm »

The fact that the guy had relativly easy acces to guns made it so much worse (or much easier to carry out) than it would be if he had heavily resticted or no access to firearms.
So? Every few months some guy in china stabs more people to death than him, in 1955 Elifasi Msomi killed 15 with a hatchet, should we ban knives and blades because someone might abuse them? Should everyone be forced to use public transportation to eliminate deaths related to automobiles? Or should you concentrate on the root of the problem, which is that he was insane, and he was ignored by everyone that should have helped him?
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