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Author Topic: God damn it California.  (Read 20808 times)

MonkeyHead

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 06:33:10 am »

This is clearly 100% a good thing.

Blizzlord

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 08:07:17 am »

If this is not a ex post facto law and only bans assault weaponry, then I say that it is the best thing to happen to the states since the public rights act of 1964.
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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 08:37:43 am »

In light of people providing a bit more background, hooray gun control and hooray this bill.
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nenjin

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 08:50:29 am »

Yay gun control!
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scriver

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2012, 09:24:48 am »

Ayup. If it is as described in the OP it's a stupid bill, if it's what people are saying here now then I support it.
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2012, 10:31:48 am »

I'm sure StopSB249.org is an unbiased site to learn the issues from.

+1

Tried to find unbiased information on this bill instead found nothing but site after site which repeats the exact same buzzwords.

So I'm strongly in favor of this bill.  If your opponents are people who reflexively repeat the same buzzwords then it's probably not because there is an intellectual groundswell of intelligent people opposed to you if you know what I mean.

I believe this is the text of the bill: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/11-12/bill/sen/sb_0201-0250/sb_249_bill_20120522_amended_asm_v96.html

As near as I can tell, the ONLY thing this gun does make illegal is conversion kits as defined by:

 (1) Any combination of parts that, when affixed to a firearm with
a fixed magazine, are designed and intended to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by [ previous legislation ]

and

   (2) Any part that, when affixed to a firearm with a fixed
magazine, is designed solely and exclusively to convert that firearm
into an assault weapon as defined by [ previous legislation ]
This is the definition of an "assault rifle" in california.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
The Bullet Button is a product that allows the shooter to drop a magazine with the use of a tool. It prevents finger manipulation of the mag release, and creates a condition allowable under current individual interpretations of California law.
It is currently legal to use in California, there isn't a law against it... yet.
Quote
Saying that this is retroactive is pure rubbish.  It's an assault rifle ban, exactly like any other gun ban.  It's no more "retroactive" than any other gun ban.  But the only people who care about this bill are a tiny, tiny fringe of the gun nuts crowd, because it only affects a tiny tiny fringe of the gun nuts crowd.  These people are used to using extreme hyperbolic language at the drop of a hat.  They'll try to dress it up by lying to you and pretending that millions of people will be affected but it takes about two seconds seconds to think this through:

This is a law that only affects people who own assault weapons in California and modify them to circumvent Californian law.  So in order to be affected you must:
1) Be well aware of California's assault weapons ban
2) Chose to ignore it and risk a fairly substantial penalty
1) I am aware of it
2) It's not against the law
Quote
So in summery the hyperbolic nature of the language used here is completely unjustified and the fact that it's repeated so much just shows how reflexive and tribal the NRA crowd has become when the fringe right part of it is unhappy.
Fringe? Do you honestly think that saigas, aks, SKSs, armalites, mini14s, vz-58s are only owned by "fringe" members of the NRA? Personally I think it's silly that ordinary rifles suddenly becomes a scary "assault rifle" because you add a pistol grip, or a suppressor. Almost everything that makes a gun an "assault rifle" makes using a rifle more comfortable to use. I know this, because I actually own guns. I own a lot of guns. I also don't like the government telling me what I can or can not do with the guns that I legally paid for.

"Assault rifle" is a nebulous term used to invoke thoughts of maniacs gunning down orphans with m60s, the most dangerous gun because of "the shoulder thing that flips up". Never mind the fact that virtually no crimes are committed with these weapons, or that people committing those crimes are criminals and don't give a shit what they are allowed to but on their guns.

But hey, at least the people that makes these laws are highly informed and know a great deal about the subject at hand

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 10:35:23 am by Kilroy the Grand »
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toomanysecrets

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2012, 11:15:55 am »

"For the purposes of this section, "detachable magazine"
means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed from the
firearm without disassembly of the firearm action"

I am not a gun nut so this kind of confused me.  According to these rules, what kind of magazine is allowed??

Also just wanted to throw my two-cents in.  I believe 99% of gun owners have the guns for three reasons: They are gun/hunting enthusiasts, they like knowing they could defend their home if they needed to, and/or they don't trust the government. None of these are bad reasons, nor are they unconstitutional.  Taking peoples' registered guns becuase of modifications is never going to make anyone safer.  There are enough guns in the world that creeps and homicidal maniacs will not have a hard time getting an illegal weapon anytime soon.

Also, the definition of an assualt weapon is pretty broad.  I don't follow these issues but common sense has led me to believe that an "assault weapon" was either fully automatic, or extraordinarily deadly in some way.  The definition in the bill includes certain semi-auto handguns for god's sakes!!
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 11:17:47 am by toomanysecrets »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2012, 11:18:28 am »

But hey, at least the people that makes these laws are highly informed and know a great deal about the subject at hand
I lol'd

I mean, it's easily forgivable to not know what a barrel shroud is, but passing legislations on something you didn't even google search...

Wat

However I'm sure these lot at least had the courtesy to do some research? Hopefully?

*Google search
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nenjin

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2012, 11:30:39 am »

Because a folding stock can make an assault weapon that much easier to conceal. I've never thought of them as a safety feature; it's an accessibility feature.
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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Loud Whispers

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 11:33:24 am »

Because a folding stock can make an assault weapon that much easier to conceal. I've never thought of them as a safety feature; it's an accessibility feature.
Talking about the barrel shroud, it stops you from accidentally burning yourself

Dutchling

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 11:34:24 am »

I believe 99% of gun owners have the guns for three reasons: They are gun/hunting enthusiasts, they like knowing they could defend their home if they needed to, and/or they don't trust the government. None of these are bad reasons, nor are they unconstitutional.
There are plenty of people who think all those reasons are pretty bad bullshit, well at least I think so. With the exception of hunting, but that is probably irrelevant here as hunters (at least in the Netherlands, I don't know about the US) are a special case.
And I doubt there were a whole lot of assault rifles around when the constitution was written anyway.
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Frumple

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 11:39:55 am »

However I'm sure these lot at least had the courtesy to do some research? Hopefully?
Research from a politician? You jest, even if you may not realize it :-\

If there's one thing that's near universally bipartisan, it's ignorance of the issue being legislated upon. I guess it's sorta' understandable. If they actually took the time to do their goddamn job, they wouldn't be able to campaign enough to get re-elected, or elected in the first place. No time for research, too busy blowing people for votes!

Anyway. See what happens if the bill passes, is my stance. Doesn't really matter until that happens, t'me. Wrong side of the country, and Cali's a bit more sane than Florida anyway. Not a good measure to see how things would go down on this end, but a possibly good test case to see what happens if something like that does go through.
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Kilroy the Grand

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 11:46:32 am »

Also, the definition of an assualt weapon is pretty broad.  I don't follow these issues but common sense has led me to believe that an "assault weapon" was either fully automatic, or extraordinarily deadly in some way.  The definition in the bill includes certain semi-auto handguns for god's sakes!!

It's an almost meaningless term, whose only purpose is to make guns seem scary.
I believe 99% of gun owners have the guns for three reasons: They are gun/hunting enthusiasts, they like knowing they could defend their home if they needed to, and/or they don't trust the government. None of these are bad reasons, nor are they unconstitutional.
There are plenty of people who think all those reasons are pretty bad bullshit, well at least I think so. With the exception of hunting, but that is probably irrelevant here as hunters (at least in the Netherlands, I don't know about the US) are a special case.
And I doubt there were a whole lot of assault rifles around when the constitution was written anyway.
Our second amendment was written to ensure that the populace could overthrow a corrupt government, the revolutionary was started because the british tried to disarm the american populous. Dutchling, if you don't think a gun is necessary to defend yourself you can always not buy one, You can also trust your government to always have your best interests in mind, whatever floats your boat.
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chaoticag

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 11:50:03 am »

Hold on, doesn't the bill mention that assault weapons are already banned in California? All this bill is proposing is making it illegal so you can turn one gun into a gun that can be classified as an assault weapon.

And I don't think that confiscating what the state considers to be an illegal good is a violation of the Fifth Amendment, otherwise I'd imagine it'd be illegal to confiscate contraband from anyone, including drugs, poisonous substances, etc. Basically, what the government has been doing for a while, and likely was challenged in court ages ago and set a precedent that allows this to happen.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the problem with this bill.
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Darvi

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Re: God damn it California.
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 11:53:04 am »

Yeah, this seems like an Obvious Rule Patch as far as I can see. Which, admittedly, isn't far.
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