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[Urist_McDrowner]

I have recently attempted to employ US military doctrine to my traps (small ordinance to wound and pin down rather than large ordinance to kill). Rather than a few, big traps, I've been using traps that generally have 1 full size component (spike ball or menacing spike, generally) or three normal weapons. The reason I've done this is for maximum efficacy.

Theory:

Azum McGobboLasher steps on trap 1 (Big friggin trap): He is completely wrecked, and dies on the spot. His carcass may jam trap.

Azum McGobboSwordsman steps on trap 2 (US inspired trap): Steps on it, gets stabbed by three crap metal large daggers from dead thieves and one iron spear from last gobbo attack. (I have legendary mechanics, so my mechanisms are pretty good and as a consequence accuracy is too), Azum stumbles a few tiles, falls unconscious and is killed by Urist, or he bleeds out. His carcass does not remain in trap.



!!SCIENTIFIC!! results:Pending next gobbo siege.




I should qualify my earlier statement. When used in conjunction with cage traps, I go for trap 1, so that the wounded guy does not crawl to the next tile and set off a trap, effectively rendering the weapon trap useless as the cage trap would have gotten him anyway.


What are your thoughts? 

[Kamin]

I've made traps with large iron daggers that have killed instantly. Rock traps have done that for me, too.

[Hans Lemurson]

I agree that it's better to have traps that wound rather than kill to avoid clogging and jamming, and not deny your melee-dwarves valuable combat experience.

I tend to go for hammers and blunt damage though.  Pain and broken bones yield crippled opponents who are still in one piece, whereas piercing attacks can result in the "walking dead" who are in the process of bleeding out, or occasionally cause dismemberments(extra hauling tasks) or death (jammed traps, no glory).  Sooo inconvenient!

[Sus]

Weapon material (and quality?) seems to matter a lot in trap efficiency as well. If all you have is copper/silver weapons, the chance of a lethal hit goes down dramatically.
Also, goblin weapon masters pretty consistently dodge or parry most weapons in a 10-weapon trap.

I suppose spamming a lot of small traps with 1-3 iron or better weapons per trap would work pretty well for disabling a siege badly enough for the militia to mop it up.

That being said, my personal preference is marksdwarf towers; two or three bolts per goblin is usually enough to make the greenskins faint and/or vomit uncontrollably. Combine with elevated firing positions behind fortifications and drawbridges that split the attackers into multiple small groups, and Robert is your father's brother (at least until they bring master archers).

[itg]

I think it sounds entertaining. It's just so satisfying to watch a maimed goblin crawl his way toward the edge of map, dragging his guts as he slowly bleeds out. As far as efficiency goes, well, a lot more goblins will block the trap's attack entirely if you use fewer/weaker weapons, so it's probably a wash compared with concentrating the same weapons in fewer traps.

For real efficiency, it's hard to beat a dodge-me trap. That's a 1-tile corridor of weapon traps filled with very weak weapons with deep pits on either side. The idea is that the traps don't kill or even injure, they just trick goblins into dodging off the side of the corridor and into the pits of death.

[Kamin]

For real efficiency, it's hard to beat a dodge-me trap. That's a 1-tile corridor of weapon traps filled with very weak weapons with deep pits on either side. The idea is that the traps don't kill or even injure, they just trick goblins into dodging off the side of the corridor and into the pits of death.

Wow, I never even thought about that... I think I'd like to try it! Damn I love this game.

Also, for the record: I'm pretty sure I don't remember that dagger trap ever being set off by a goblin, so my point was irrelevant. Especially if what set it off was like, a great horned owl or something. Apologies if my original post was misleading.

[Iosyn]

Indeed, traps clogging can be a real pain. I always make sure that the first few traps are cages; whatever is caught will be either perfectly healthy minus possible marksdorf bolts or missing limbs from my ballistae-- and these can be used later to train the military or as cannon fodder on something nasty FUN.

It's actually an incredible idea. Instead of taking ages to set up weapon traps with 10 serrated steel discs, I can set double the amount of serrated disc traps with only half or otherwise rejected components and leave my military maimed practice dummies.
If the minecart shotguns and ballistae don't kill them first.

Also on the blunt damage issue: Spiked balls do blunt damage if they can't penetrate armour, I think?
I've still yet to find a decent use for those large screws though. Might be good for taking out mounts and other large creatures.

[Wrex]

Large screws function much like menacing spikes. Spiked balls, meanwhile, are the serrated disks of blunt weaponry. The penetration depth is miniscule and will almost always be stoped at the tissue layer, causing a hefty amount of blunt injury.

[Iosyn]

At the tissue...? oh, very, very nice.
And here I was thinking that they were damn near useless. >_<

looks like I need to revise my trap layout. cage/serrated/spikes and spears/spikeballs and hammers.
hopefully any survivors left once the first lot are clogged up will be too maimed to fight back.

[Urist_McDrowner]

It also gives me something to do with all the captured large daggers, whips, great axes, etc. Foreign weapons become less useless.

When I need lethality (very important chokepoint, last line of defense before dorfs), and reliability, I put 10 high quality (masterpiece as much as I can) wooden crossbows my potash maker turned legendary bowyer in the same spot with , and no gobbo, no minotaur, no tanked out human has made it past there intact enough to fight a subpar axedorf. The only time when it failed is when my dorfs conspired against me and used only bone bolts even when 70% of my bolts were iron.

[i2amroy]

For real efficiency, it's hard to beat a dodge-me trap. That's a 1-tile corridor of weapon traps filled with very weak weapons with deep pits on either side. The idea is that the traps don't kill or even injure, they just trick goblins into dodging off the side of the corridor and into the pits of death.

The only problem with dodge-me traps is many times unskilled goblins (which is like 90% of them) don't dodge at all, they just get hit. As such you will need a sufficiently long walkway in order to give the goblins enough of a chance to actually get a successful dodge off in order to fall. Elsewise they just walk right through getting poked with a bunch of spears and then are more powerful when they get to the other side. Dodge-me traps are very useful for getting rid of the elites that come with each siege group though.

[Iosyn]

always nice to cover a dodge me trap with fortified crossbow dorfs.

DWWWW
^^^^^.F:)
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^......... F:)
^^^^^.F:)

Nice and compact. Make sure to get them out if any archers manage to get in though.

[hjd_uk]

Surely its more Dwarfy to have such powerful traps theres nothing left but gibs?

I've started using a combination of dodge-traps and cage traps. Leaving the rreal nasty weaopn traps for the end of the Gauntlet.

[Sus]

At the tissue...? oh, very, very nice.
And here I was thinking that they were damn near useless. >_<

looks like I need to revise my trap layout. cage/serrated/spikes and spears/spikeballs and hammers.

Yeah, spiked balls are surprisingly effective against armored enemies. Even a wooden(!) spikeball can do a nasty number on your average goblin. Plus they score three hits per ball.

Is there any reason to use giant axe blades instead of serrated discs, BtW? I mean besides the obvious.

[Iosyn]

Apparently if the edged attack doesn't work it reverts to blunt like spikeballs and the extra size should help with damage, but... missing out on 3 attacks for a chance that your *steel giant axe* doesn't penetrate goblinite? Sounds like a bit of a lame tradeoff.