Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Hmuda]

Just came back to play a bit of DF, and noticed that now dwarves first pick up an appropriate container for the item to be hauled and then go to pick multiple stuff up. Moving a huge number of items, this can be great. But when it comes to moving a single item, it is downright irritating. Why pick up a heavy bin containing stone blocks, only to pick up a single other one, and be slowed down considerably in the process? Just pick the damn block up and put it into the bin instead of slowly dragging the bin to the site. Also makes watching my farmers harvesting a painful experience. Why harvest the plant and then run for a barrel, instead of harvesting it and them running with the plant TO the barrel instead?

This also mucks up my production chains sometimes, as the haulers remove containers from local stockpiles that are exclusively supplying certain workshops, emptying them and shutting down the whole production while they are busy playing with bins instead of picking the actual items up that need hauling.

This also makes it impossible to have a zero-bin stockpile take items from binned ones for some reason. I have to enable bins to be used in the target stockpile in order to have my dwarves actually start hauling that leather I ordered them to place next to my leather workshop. I wanted to use single-item-per-tile for supply stockpiles to prevent them from taking bins all them time, but I simply cannot escape it.

Is there a way to revert back to the old system? This new method really slows down the production in my fortress.

[MrWiggles]

Dont play 34.11 would be the most succinct answer.

[Hmuda]

Judging by the update notes this new abomination came at the same time as the very handy extended stockpile linking system if I got it correctly (both are mentioned in the same news post). That alone can make me stick to the newest version, even if the hauling can make me claw my face off.

Here's hoping that Toady would include a parameter that would set a minimum amount of items needed to even consider using containers for hauling.

[MrWiggles]

Arbitrary limits probably wont make this issue going to go away. The Postman Route issue is pretty none trival, but it does defiantly need more work.

[Hyndis]

I only ever use bins for items that are rarely hauled and spend most of their time sitting around in storage. Blocks, gems, leather, weapons, armor, and finished goods are ideal for bins.

I've found that using stockpiles without bins in combination with minecarts for quantum stockpiling is the way to go. It takes a bit to get it set up, and a lot of thought is needed, but once you get quantum stockpiling set up its a beautiful thing. Fully automatic, requires a minimum of hauling jobs, and immensely efficient. It also uses up almost no storage space at all. You no longer need huge stockpile rooms. Everything gets miniaturized around the workshop.

[wuphonsreach]

The basic simple answer is:

Use a stockpile that takes from everywhere, and have it give to a stockpile that only takes from links right next to it.  That restricted stockpile can then give directly to the workshop.

If a bin does go for a wander, it won't get far because it's only moving stuff from the 1st to 2nd stockpile.  Bins in the outer stockpile can happily go for a walkabout with affecting the workshop.

[knutor]

Embark in heavy forested areas to make oodles of wooden pots.  That's how I kept my sanity.  Then make oodles of wooden bins/barrels, too.  If you can embark in a goody goody zone, the wood there is feather light, and it hardly slows them down, I heard.  But..  I never proofed it.

Make a bazillion containerless stockpiles feeding the container stockpiles, to prevent delays and rot.  Til the next version comes out.  I'm a little nuts at the track and minecarts myself, they take so long to setup, for what good they produce.  Sorta wish it was handled like donkeys in serf city.  If the serfs-dwarfs walk the route enough times, they start using donkeys themselves. 

We shouldn't have to waste precious RTS thoughts, to set it up, the AI just accomdates for the need for larger load sizes.  Like if its a busy stockpile, barrels start appearing on their own, and if its REAL busy minecarts.  No tracks needed.  Tracks are a pain to lay.  Take care, Knutor

[Hmuda]

The basic simple answer is:

Use a stockpile that takes from everywhere, and have it give to a stockpile that only takes from links right next to it.  That restricted stockpile can then give directly to the workshop.

If a bin does go for a wander, it won't get far because it's only moving stuff from the 1st to 2nd stockpile.  Bins in the outer stockpile can happily go for a walkabout with affecting the workshop.

Hey, didn't think of a 3 level system. Should be workable, thanks for the idea.

@knutor: also sounds like a viable method, but I'm only having real problems with the workshop feeders. Although I get a bit annoyed by the occasional inefficient haulings in other places, the 3 tier system should cover it.

[Sutremaine]

Embark in heavy forested areas to make oodles of wooden pots.  That's how I kept my sanity.  Then make oodles of wooden bins/barrels, too.  If you can embark in a goody goody zone, the wood there is feather light, and it hardly slows them down, I heard.  But..  I never proofed it.

Candlenut, kapok, and willow are the next lightest, coming in at a density of under 400. But pretty much any wood is fine, and it's only oak, mangrove, glumprong, and blood thorn that are 700 to 1250 density. For comparison, the only stones under 2670 are lignite, jet, saltpeter, and gypsum and its related stone types.

There are very few things where the particular weight of the wood used for the container will make a difference. Either the items in the bin are so light that they won't slow the dwarf down any more than the bin, or they're so heavy that the contribution of the bin is negligible.

[wuphonsreach]

The big problem with using wooden barrels is that they have 1/2 the storage capacity as stone pots.  Wood barrels hold 30 roasts, stone pots hold 60.  There's also more things that you need wood for, such as ash / charcoal (if you don't have bit coal/lignite) / beds.

(Not sure if it holds true for liquids.)

[knutor]

Thanks for clearing up the woods, Sutremaine.  Never tried the 3 tiered method, either.  Gonna give that a try in this 33x33 good badlands embark.  I'm all but locked out, with stone and metal workshops in 34.11, until I learn how to do minecarts.  One of these nights I'll figure it out, and it'll be a concord moment, I'm sure.  Til then, I'll be raking my face too!

[toomanysecrets]

Using wheelbarrows in stockpiles with bins of armor/blocks is helpful. And minecarts aren't mandatory. I'm lazy and haven't even messed with minecarts in 34.11, even with a pretty huge fort.

[Hyndis]

Using wheelbarrows in stockpiles with bins of armor/blocks is helpful. And minecarts aren't mandatory. I'm lazy and haven't even messed with minecarts in 34.11, even with a pretty huge fort.

I've been using minecarts to quantum stockpile blocks of a specific type next to my building site. Its extremely convenient, I can move a huge number of blocks quickly and with a minimum of hauling jobs, no bins are needed, and they all get right up to the construction project so the masons never run out of blocks.

Regular blocks and bars just use bins. If you toggle individual items in the stockpile settings you can isolate out, say, marble blocks or earthware bricks or whatever you want to build things out of.