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[GlyphGryph]

I do think we're neglecting the value in the depth of player interaction in games like DayZ and Eve. In multiplayer games with no win conditions, it's the players that bring the game to life, through exchanges, whether that is communication or barter. That is enough for factions to form, and can potentially replace what would be NPCs in any other game with people, who have goals and motivations, and could be bargained with. Hell, the core of the zombie genre outside of video games has overwhelmingly been about people. Though ultimately, from the sounds of things, DayZ isn't doing so well in that department, where it seems the dominant strategy according to what gives most benefit is shooting first. But still, I think it could be done, and it could drive a game if things are balanced right.

Honestly, the only game I've seen that does it right, or even comes close, is STILL Die2Nite.

The game is always, always about other people. Controlling them. Convincing them. Organizing them. Dealing with conflicts.

The bay12 group survived for a record amount of days (although it was quickly broken) by virtue of the fact that we had great people and we were actually able to resolve issues and deal with each other well.

One of my best times was also when a small bay12 group of 6 (I think, maybe 4) players had a huge power struggle with another faction, and we ended up pulling an amazing coup where we locked the leader of the opposing faction outside. If he'd lived, we all suspected he would have sabotaged us soon... and he'd already tried to lock us out unsuccessfully. We'd had one of our members infiltrate his inner circle and uncover the plan before it went through - actually, without someone on the inside (which we managed to do day1 when we first noticed there being an issue... getting one of our own faction mates to essentially turn against us as a ruse was pretty sweet) we probably would have lost the whole town after a week.


Ultimately, I'd love to see a game do the same thing without the many glaring flaws that Die2Nite had. But, like Spacestation13, the people were the point of playing.

[lordcooper]

I'm not the only one in this thread who said they enjoyed the game.

But dont let that get in the way of telling me how I have fun wrong. ¬_¬

...I didn't?

[olemars]

I do think we're neglecting the value in the depth of player interaction in games like DayZ and Eve. In multiplayer games with no win conditions, it's the players that bring the game to life, through exchanges, whether that is communication or barter. That is enough for factions to form, and can potentially replace what would be NPCs in any other game with people, who have goals and motivations, and could be bargained with. Hell, the core of the zombie genre outside of video games has overwhelmingly been about people. Though ultimately, from the sounds of things, DayZ isn't doing so well in that department, where it seems the dominant strategy according to what gives most benefit is shooting first. But still, I think it could be done, and it could drive a game if things are balanced right.

Honestly, the only game I've seen that does it right, or even comes close, is STILL Die2Nite.

The game is always, always about other people. Controlling them. Convincing them. Organizing them. Dealing with conflicts.

The bay12 group survived for a record amount of days (although it was quickly broken) by virtue of the fact that we had great people and we were actually able to resolve issues and deal with each other well.

One of my best times was also when a small bay12 group of 6 (I think, maybe 4) players had a huge power struggle with another faction, and we ended up pulling an amazing coup where we locked the leader of the opposing faction outside. If he'd lived, we all suspected he would have sabotaged us soon... and he'd already tried to lock us out unsuccessfully. We'd had one of our members infiltrate his inner circle and uncover the plan before it went through - actually, without someone on the inside (which we managed to do day1 when we first noticed there being an issue... getting one of our own faction mates to essentially turn against us as a ruse was pretty sweet) we probably would have lost the whole town after a week.


Ultimately, I'd love to see a game do the same thing without the many glaring flaws that Die2Nite had. But, like Spacestation13, the people were the point of playing.

I dislike group dynamics, especially in games, so I played (Day Z) with avoiding it as the main objective. I never shot anyone in anger, instead I hid, observed, skulked and scampered off, and I think I enjoyed the game more tjan or at least just as much as most of those trying to set up groups or betrayals or ganking anything moving.

[Bdthemag]

I'm not the only one in this thread who said they enjoyed the game.

But dont let that get in the way of telling me how I have fun wrong. ¬_¬

You may be having fun, but you're having fun with a flawed video game. Saying "It's not bad, I had fun!" is a shitty argument to use, as it doesn't prove whether or not the game is good. If someone can list the faults of a video game, and provide evidence of these faults and it turns out these faults outnumber or are more prevalent than the good parts of the game, well then you have a bad game. It's a bad game regardless of whether or not you had fun with it, and using the "I had fun" argument isn't a very good way to convince us otherwise.

[GlyphGryph]

And let's be honest, I'm sure at least a few of us here have thoroughly enjoyed some pretty terrible games. Or movies. Or books.

Something can be objectively bad and still pretty enjoyable. It's weird. But we get to that point by realizing that, while it's obvious why other people would NOT enjoy it, we get to be special. ^_^

[fenrif]

I'm not the only one in this thread who said they enjoyed the game.

But dont let that get in the way of telling me how I have fun wrong. ¬_¬

You may be having fun, but you're having fun with a flawed video game. Saying "It's not bad, I had fun!" is a shitty argument to use, as it doesn't prove whether or not the game is good. If someone can list the faults of a video game, and provide evidence of these faults and it turns out these faults outnumber or are more prevalent than the good parts of the game, well then you have a bad game. It's a bad game regardless of whether or not you had fun with it, and using the "I had fun" argument isn't a very good way to convince us otherwise.

Except I'm pretty sure I never said it was a good game, just that it was enjoyable. And considering I wasn't mislead about thinking it was a fully finished peice of software, for a beta it wasn't objectively bad. At least it wasn't any more bad than Day Z.

I'm well aware that liking something doesn't make it objectively good. And that people can like bad things. The problem here is that people piled into the thread, many of whom haven't played the game, to all talk about how terrible and broken the game is. I said I enjoyed it, as others have said in the thread before, despite the problems with it. And even though it's shitty that they basically lied about the state of the game on the Steam page, for the people who knowingly bought into it as an alpha or beta release, it's not so different from playing alpa/beta Minecraft or whatever.

I'm not trying to convince you the game is sold gold quality. I'm just saying I enjoyed it, and that's apparently hard for certain people to understand I guess?

[Grakelin]

Yet you've stood up in defense of the developers multiple times in this thread.

The Room is my favourite movie, but I don't have any delusions that Tommy Wiseau is a competent man.

[fenrif]

Yet you've stood up in defense of the developers multiple times in this thread.

The Room is my favourite movie, but I don't have any delusions that Tommy Wiseau is a competent man.

Care to respond to any of the points I made in response to your feeling the need to post erronious information from my steam profile? No?

Well anyway, what does my opinion of the developer have anything to do with the game itself? That's got nothing to do with what we're talking about. And aside from that I've hardly stood up in defense of them, I've said many times in the thread that they're incompotent and fucked up hugely, and that Sergey is a giant douche. Theres a difference between defending someone and getting fed up at 20 different people coming into the thread, without having played the game, just to say "LOL That guy worked on Big Rigs?! OMFG HAHA LOL!"

Lets try this back at you:

HEY GUYS GRAKELIN WATCHES OTHER MOVIES, HE'S TROLLING US ABOUT THE ROOM! (I somehow magically know he hasn't watched it once this week, but he's watched other movies!)
No one could ever possibly like The Room, he must be deluding himself
I understand he could like The Room, some people like raping old women, I'd probobly prefer that to watching The Room
Saying you like The Room is tantamount to declaring it as the greatest cinematic masterpiece of all time, which is wrong and you are wrong for saying it! Just because you like it doesn't mean it's good!
Stop defending Tommy Wiseau all the time!

[lordcooper]

You're being either an idiot or an arsehole.

E: Time to use the ignore list for the first time on any forum.

[Silverheels]

some people like raping old women, I'd probobly prefer that to watching The Room

      Having lurked these forums since discovering DF in 2010, I'm sad I have to come out of the shadows over this scam game. Fenrif, you make some pretty edgy posts, which is fine, but you need to ease up a bit here. I think people are quick to jump on other gamers who like this game, because they feel it should not be making any money, enticing other devs to release games like this for some fast cash. Whatever you may think of this game, there is no reason to be posting offensive garbage like this, much less starting to throw mud at each other. The Bay 12 forums are one of the few places I have left to read some good opinions with a minimum of nerdraygeing, so please play nice. Or, take it to the steam forums!   /slips back into the shadows

[BuriBuriZaemon]

Can't believe people are trying to win an argument in the Internet. Only Sergey Titov (or whatever his name is) is benefiting from this.

[miauw62]

Armok is having a jolly good time too.

[fenrif]

some people like raping old women, I'd probobly prefer that to watching The Room

      Having lurked these forums since discovering DF in 2010, I'm sad I have to come out of the shadows over this scam game. Fenrif, you make some pretty edgy posts, which is fine, but you need to ease up a bit here. I think people are quick to jump on other gamers who like this game, because they feel it should not be making any money, enticing other devs to release games like this for some fast cash. Whatever you may think of this game, there is no reason to be posting offensive garbage like this, much less starting to throw mud at each other. The Bay 12 forums are one of the few places I have left to read some good opinions with a minimum of nerdraygeing, so please play nice. Or, take it to the steam forums!   /slips back into the shadows

It was in reference to Lordcoopers post about hammering nails into peoples scrotums.

It's on the same page as my post, right there at the top.

See, what I was doing was, I was doing this thing where I basically rephrased all the things that have been said about me in the past 3 or 4 pages of this thread, and framing them around Grakelin's statement that he likes The Room. Mostly to highlight how ridiculous some of the things being said are. If I'm posting offensive garbage, it's in response to offensive garbage. If I'm throwing mud, it's a mirror of the mud thrown at me.

[Silverheels]

Hey, thanks for spelling that out for me fenrif, retaliation and escalation is the mature way to carry on a discussion. I apologize, and you win all the internet.

[fenrif]

Hey thanks for reading me explaining how I was highlighting all the ridiculous things have been said, and somehow confusing that for me retaliating or escalating, even though I don't think I could've been more clear. I thought it would be worthwhile to point out that every time I answered something directed at me, the goalposts moved so people could continue to make light of me enjoying the game without actually discussing the game at all. Obviously I should've accepted that I have fun wrong and that hammering nails into a scrotum is perfectly civil discourse, and not let all those silly little facts and the post history of this thread get in the way of how cool it is to hate on things.

And clearly sarcasm and childish snipes are the mature way to carry on a discussion. Thank you for teaching me that. You sir, obviously, win all internet.