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[10ebbor10]

I have a feeling this discussions is going in a bad direction. In fact, I'd say more, namely that the discussion is going in both bad directions at once.

[Devling]

It does not tell us why pain exists

It does.
Pain exists to tell us when we should stop doing something.

[10ebbor10]

It does not tell us why pain exists

It does.
Pain exists to tell us when we should stop doing something.

Technically, it tells us that pain doesn't exist, and is just a electro/bio chemical reaction triggered by nerves*, which then releases other hormones and stuff in order to make that reaction not repeat itself again.

*Amongst other things, similair mechanics are also at work for Jealousy, for example.

Remember, anything that causes itself to happen again, happens again.

And as for laws of physics stopping to work all of a sudden, then we just break out some of the stranger theorems. Really, really wierd things happen if you leave mathematicians too long in a room without observationall input.


Points is, Science and Religion should be NOMA. However, humans kinda refuse to think in easily definable catagorems, and so both spill into it other, but more often into adjacent other things.
Science is a guide on how the Universe works. If the Universe decides not to conform, bad luck, start again.
The Bible, and any other religious work, is an attempt at describing a guide at how to create a more stable, and optionally better society*. Often by serving as an individual guidance for humans. This has been met with varying amounts of succes, partially because of the huge amounts of possible intrepretations.

*This ties in nicely with some theories on the origin of early religions. (Not all, mind you)

[Hanslanda]

The human mind will not be able to understand everything. It is not built to understand everything. We are still a crazy ape that has neither the innocence of animals nor the goodness of angels.

The scientific method tells us nothing important. It does not tell us where we came from or where we're going. It does not tell us it there is life after death. It does not tell us why pain and evil exist. It does not tell us how to be happy.

Neither does organized religion, mind you, but at least it's trying. Of course the organizing is part of the problem--unregimented spirituality gets a lot closer than either science or religion.

I'll take the feelings and the obvious, thank you so very much. Science is just a tool, we should stop taking it so damn seriously. In any case, experiments are just more anecdotal evidence. The laws of physics could stop working at any moment for all we know.

We came from evolution. We're merely another mutation in a very long line of mutations. Life after death is a ridiculous term, and besides 'heaven and hell' are not places. Heaven is the state of having god in your life. Hell is the absence of god in your life. You don't go to a fiery lake of brimstone or a white fluffy cloud place with winged humanoids. It's not life after death, it's being one with god regardless of being alive or dead. Pain exists as a neurological function to inform your body of damage. Evil is a philosophical construct like 'good' and thus is somewhat up for debate. Science can actually tell you how to be happy, but that's a bit more complicated. See, living a healthy, well-balanced life will make you happy. Being healthy releases endorphins and stuff, see Runner's High. Eating healthy and such promotes your self-esteem because 'I eat good and I don't give in to my base urges to gorge on candy'. Being yourself, by say, actually asking that girl out, or telling that jerk what you think, also increase your general level of self-satisfaction.

If I say anything about organized religion, I will be banned so fast there will be flaming tiretreads on the thread.

The 'obvious' as you so seem to think it is, is not obvious. It appears to me that you're saying 'God is real and it's obvious' which would be... A invitation for bad things to come of this thread. I can say that it is obvious to me that evolutionary theory is correct. It is obvious to me that religion does not hold all the answers. Before you go throwing around the word obvious, please consider that you are not the only person with opinions in the world. That there are other people who believe wildly different things than you. And instead of trying to put them down and try to make it seem like their beliefs are ridiculous, you should try to learn from them.

As I said before, can't we all get along? I'm one of those 'super-science fucktards' you mentioned earlier, and I would like you to stop this line of conversation before someone with thinner skin than me becomes offended. I personally won't get offended by your beliefs, you have a right to them, but don't push them like they're the only set of beliefs that makes sense.

[10ebbor10]

I can say that it is obvious to me that evolutionary theory is Probably correct.

FTFY

No definite truths in Science, or we'd go down the wrong way and end of in scientific conservationism. Which is not pretty, at all.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The probably is implied and really doesn't need to be stated since it makes the scientifically illiterate doubt science in ways that they shouldn't. The only things that are always true are the laws of physics (and even then it is dependent upon scale).

[ChairmanPoo]

...GuessWho has a poor understanding of the scientific method if he thinks that experimental science is at the same level as anecdotal evidence, and should read up on scientific methodology and philosophy.

[10ebbor10]

The probably is implied and really doesn't need to be stated since it makes the scientifically illiterate doubt science in ways that they shouldn't. The only things that are always true are the laws of physics (and even then it is dependent upon scale).

The laws of physics are a rather bad example. For one, we know for sure they are flawed. LINK

I'd say that only scientific truths are the Mathematical Axioms, and those differ based on which mathematical system you want to use.

[GuesssWho]

Well, why do things happen that cause us pain? Why isn't everything better? And I hate it when people say that happiness is a chemical this that and the other, it takes all the importance out of it. If consciousness is just a chemical reaction, things like empathy and morals start flying out the window before long.

And I understand the scientific method just fine, but in the end everything is anecdotal evidence. They see what happens and they tell us, that's all. Just because they're careful about it and try to repeat it doesn't mean they know any more about it than what they see.

I'm not saying a Christian God is real. I'm saying science doesn't have all the answers, and never will. In any case, if you were one of the real science jerks you wouldn't be on a forum for a video game, because fun is unscientific. (Yes, there are people like that. Most of them work at Los Alamos.)

Now then, subject change. I remember someone at a bookstore trying to buy the Sandman for their 5-year-old, how's that for stupid?

[PanH]

There's no spelling without the letter 'A'.

I would like to disehgree. Simple modificehtions cen ehlter little while still ehllowing spelling lehrgley legible. Spelling without the letter 'E' would be fer more difficult.

There you go, a 50.000 word story: http://spinelessbooks.com/gadsby/

Or you can take La Disparition (A void).


Also, there was an atheism/religion thread.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Well, why do things happen that cause us pain? Why isn't everything better?

because the universe doesnt care about us and wasn't created to cater to us and we emerged from a random bunch of chemicals that reacted randomly with each other instead of being perfectly designed to fit this universe, so the ability to notice that something is harming us and finding that unpleasant helps us avoid things that harm us and helps us survive

And I hate it when people say that happiness is a chemical this that and the other, it takes all the importance out of it. If consciousness is just a chemical reaction, things like empathy and morals start flying out the window before long.

happiness and consciousness and empathy are chemichals and morals are artificial constructs that, idealy, help more of us survive and be happy. the universe is meaningless and pointless without people inventing a meaning and a point. the fact that the meaning and the point of the universe is artificial instead of inherent and natural shouldn't make a difference, though

[Xantalos]

Ohey, a debate about personal belie-
Wait. I remember what happened the last time I got involved in one of these. Nupe.

[PanH]

Ohey, a debate about personal belie-
Wait. I remember what happened the last time I got involved in one of these. Nupe.

People stated to worship you ?

[Xantalos]

Ohey, a debate about personal belie-
Wait. I remember what happened the last time I got involved in one of these. Nupe.

People stated to worship you ?

Not exactly. Just trust me when I say it didn't end well.

[ChairmanPoo]

Ohey, a debate about personal belie-
Wait. I remember what happened the last time I got involved in one of these. Nupe.

People stated to worship you ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8-eiBqri0U