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Author Topic: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies  (Read 138481 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #120 on: July 29, 2012, 08:08:20 am »

I think you might be thinking a little too hard about this.
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Flare

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #121 on: July 29, 2012, 08:16:00 am »

If I were the secretary of the UN, and a corporation whose fundings exceeds that of several nations, and that employs people such as Lovecraft (Inventor of the Dark dreamer project, which became the avatar project) wanted to design a spaceship with weapon capabilities and equip it with nukes, and send that to an alien planet, of which the only intelligent live lies on stone age levels, I'd sure as hell withdraw that mining license* and dismantle the company if I could.

Though are you factoring in that if the ships like the one seen in the movie exist, and even smaller more mundane ones exist that these, even without and nuke can cause a catastrophe on earth already? It seems to me that if you were to remove their mining license on this charge you'd run up against the precedent already set by having start ships zip around space at fractions of the speed of light. If mining for this material through out space is already wide spread, nuclear reactors are going to be the main stay of these mining operations.

And besides, if nukes do hold that much power in that world, you're probably not going to anger any organization that has them. The lead up to acquiring nuclear weapons might be fraught with embargoes and sanctions, but once you have them and have demonstrated their existence, people tend to leave you alone unless you have a reputation as an asshole.

Quote
The first mission to Pandora was done at great expense, using a 4 km ship. Considering the enormous energy costs involved, there would be no space for redundant features such as weaponry. After that they knew about the Na'vi, and using nukes and orbital weaponry against stone age people seems a bit redundant, doesn't it. Especially when you are having serious PR problems already, and your ship only has a 350 metric tonnes of cargo capacity. (Which isn't a lot on astronomical scales, believe me)

*The RDA was only permitted the right to mine the planet after PETA screwed up their campaign. Turns out using a human with implants as Na' Vi was a bad idea.

Last but not Least:

THERE IS NO FTL TRAVEL IN AVATAR (0.7 c is fast, but not FTL)

This is a bit worse so to speak. There might be some weird physics cheat in an FTL drive that might lessen the impact, but a straight on torch ship has problems that ships with reactionless drives have. Namely that it goes so fast that if it were to collide with earth it would probably crack the crust and kill everything on it. A nuke, and especially a nuke with the power of WWII bombs, aren't going to be on the list of things you need to worry about. Their ship, if it moves this fast, can effectively hold the earth hostage.
They're already beyond the dangers that nukes can pose after they built that ship, the ship effectively doubles as a planet cracker. Shoving a few Hiroshima sized bombs onto it doesn't seem to be that much of an escalation of danger this ship poses to all human life on earth.

As for weight, with their level of technology, a fusion or even a fission bomb can be made quite small I imagine, especially if it's yield is on the civilian level instead of whatever monsters they have in their era. As for their use, they're great for burning down forests, so long as your air burst is high enough off the ground. A sprinkling of a few Little Mans here and there and you're basically can drastically cut back on the logging equipment.

Quote
The only star they can reach is alpha Centauri, and that only at great expense. All power generation is done by fusion (excepts for the ships main drive, which is an antimatter/matter reactor). Unlike fission, fusion can not be brought to explode. Besides, since fission is barely used anymore, the amount of nuclear weapons would most likely be less, not more. Antimatter/matter reactors being as dangerous as they are, I expect them to be strongly guarded. The deuterium and he 3 required for fusionpower on Pandora are gathered from the gas giant around which the ship flies, using retired shuttles.

Fission doesn't explode either :/. It just generates an intense amount of heat in a very short time given a very specific situation. The explosion is from whatever material around the bomb superheating into plasma in an instant and expanding at an indredible rate due to how much heat is released in such a small time frame. A fusion bomb is quite possible. But having read your comment, nukes are once again the least of your worries. The fact that their engine uses antimatter is scary thought given how much power you have concentrated there, and how volatile it is. And so, if you trust a company with something this scary, you can probably trust them with some big bombs when they ask for some.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:20:11 am by Flare »
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Skyrunner

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #122 on: July 29, 2012, 08:33:44 am »

Maybe the antimatter engines are constructed like a blackbox? Where you can't open the thing up, only use the predefined hooks into the thing. It also means that you're screwed if something happens that you can't solve without opening the engine up, but. ..
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Flare

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #123 on: July 29, 2012, 08:40:28 am »

Frankly, the amount of trust you give to a crew that commands a ship capable of destroying earth is probably high enough that you also let the twiddle with their antimatter engine to their heart's content.

Even at 30 tons or the weight of one of the mechs. Going at 0.7c is fast enough to kill everything on the planet once it hits the atmosphere. For FTL systems like star trek where they fold the space in front of the ship to make each step seem like several it might actually be a more traditional impact given that the universe thinks it's going at a reasonable pace. But when a ship actually physically goes over half the speed of light, having that mass come to a dead stop releases a tremendous amount of energy.
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Sheb

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #124 on: July 29, 2012, 08:44:23 am »

Yeah, so they could just have kinetic killed the tree. Or dug under it.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #125 on: July 29, 2012, 08:46:29 am »

Now I'm curious if the gas giant Pandora was orbiting could've survived their ship hitting it head on at .7c.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #126 on: July 29, 2012, 08:50:11 am »

If I were the secretary of the UN, and a corporation whose fundings exceeds that of several nations, and that employs people such as Lovecraft (Inventor of the Dark dreamer project, which became the avatar project) wanted to design a spaceship with weapon capabilities and equip it with nukes, and send that to an alien planet, of which the only intelligent live lies on stone age levels, I'd sure as hell withdraw that mining license* and dismantle the company if I could.

Though are you factoring in that if the ships like the one seen in the movie exist, and even smaller more mundane ones exist that these, even without and nuke can cause a catastrophe on earth already? It seems to me that if you were to remove their mining license on this charge you'd run up against the precedent already set by having start ships zip around space at fractions of the speed of light. If mining for this material through out space is already wide spread, nuclear reactors are going to be the main stay of these mining operations.

And besides, if nukes do hold that much power in that world, you're probably not going to anger any organization that has them. The lead up to acquiring nuclear weapons might be fraught with embargoes and sanctions, but once you have them and have demonstrated their existence, people tend to leave you alone unless you have a reputation as an asshole.
There' a difference between ships armed with active weaponry and shuttles that could be used to crash on Earth.  Besides, as evidenced by the post above, the RDA was required to sign a contract that they would not use/own any WMD or participate in the militarization of space. This implies they had no WMD's at the moment of signing, and weren't allowed to acquire any later on. Mining for unobtanium is not widespread. There are 12 ISV's, and Pandora is the only confirmed source. All other space travel is implied to be seriously subluminal, considering the giant expenses required in maintaining faster then light speed. The other mines (On the moon and Mars), mine He-3 and some other resources.

Quote
The first mission to Pandora was done at great expense, using a 4 km ship. Considering the enormous energy costs involved, there would be no space for redundant features such as weaponry. After that they knew about the Na'vi, and using nukes and orbital weaponry against stone age people seems a bit redundant, doesn't it. Especially when you are having serious PR problems already, and your ship only has a 350 metric tonnes of cargo capacity. (Which isn't a lot on astronomical scales, believe me)

*The RDA was only permitted the right to mine the planet after PETA screwed up their campaign. Turns out using a human with implants as Na' Vi was a bad idea.

Last but not Least:

THERE IS NO FTL TRAVEL IN AVATAR (0.7 c is fast, but not FTL)

This is a bit worse so to speak. There might be some weird physics cheat in an FTL drive that might lessen the impact, but a straight on torch ship has problems that ships with reactionless drives have. Namely that it goes so fast that if it were to collide with earth it would probably crack the crust and kill everything on it. A nuke, and especially a nuke with the power of WWII bombs, aren't going to be on the list of things you need to worry about. Their ship, if it moves this fast, can effectively hold the earth hostage.
They're already beyond the dangers that nukes can pose after they built that ship, the ship effectively doubles as a planet cracker. Shoving a few Hiroshima sized bombs onto it doesn't seem to be that much of an escalation of danger this ship poses to all human life on earth.

As for weight, with their level of technology, a fusion or even a fission bomb can be made quite small I imagine, especially if it's yield is on the civilian level instead of whatever monsters they have in their era. As for their use, they're great for burning down forests, so long as your air burst is high enough off the ground. A sprinkling of a few Little Mans here and there and you're basically can drastically cut back on the logging equipment.
1. All RDA officials live on Earth. Sure they could hold each mutually hostage, but it would accomplish much
2. Also, using the ship as a weapon would be rather hard.
             -The ship requires 6 months to arcelerate
             -At those speeds, even a dust particle would blow up the entire ship. It has shields to avoid this, but since the defense systems relies on the first 3 shields being destroyed in the collision, just sending 2 pebble sized objects can destroy it. 
             -An integral part of the ships arceleration is a giant laser placed somewhere in the solar system. I'm pretty sure this one would be under governement control.
3. They wouldn't have got permission to build the ship without signing the contract. I'm pretty sure they made sure that the RDA wouldn't cheat on them.
4. Fusion only happens at high temperatures/high densities. In order to have a fusion bomb you'd need to use a fission bomb to set it off.  As for using them to burn forests, why? The RDA doesn't want to destroy the forests, nor anger the natives, the general public or the United Nations if they don't need too.  Over it's thirty year colonization, the RDA has cut maybe just enough forest to justify 3 warheads. (The mine, Hell's gate and Hometree). Nevertheless, they would still need to invest in logging equipment, if only to control the Jungle when it grows back. Blowing it up works the first time, but after that your own material gets in the way.
 
Quote
The only star they can reach is alpha Centauri, and that only at great expense. All power generation is done by fusion (excepts for the ships main drive, which is an antimatter/matter reactor). Unlike fission, fusion can not be brought to explode. Besides, since fission is barely used anymore, the amount of nuclear weapons would most likely be less, not more. Antimatter/matter reactors being as dangerous as they are, I expect them to be strongly guarded. The deuterium and he 3 required for fusionpower on Pandora are gathered from the gas giant around which the ship flies, using retired shuttles.

Fission doesn't explode either :/. It just generates an intense amount of heat in a very short time given a very specific situation. The explosion is from whatever material around the bomb superheating into plasma in an instant and expanding at an indredible rate due to how much heat is released in such a small time frame. A fusion bomb is quite possible. But having read your comment, nukes are once again the least of your worries. The fact that their engine uses antimatter is scary thought given how much power you have concentrated there, and how volatile it is. And so, if you trust a company with something this scary, you can probably trust them with some big bombs when they ask for some.
[/quote]
Given the danger of anti matter weaponry, it would make sense for the governements of Earth to enforce strict rules and such. Maybe all higher RDA officials are forced to remain on Earth. Maybe there are failsafes build in in the engines. The particle arcelerators that produce the antimatter are most likely heavily guarded and governement controlled too. In the end however, why would the RDA ask for the bombs:

Nuclear weapons
Positive
-Neglible civilian use
-Should the natives somehow revolt and manage to beat our troops using stone age tech, we can nuke them

Negative
-Requires breaking a contract with the effects that all RDA's space bound operations would be cancelled
-Will make the natives revolt, immediatly
-PR death

Really, the costs completly outweight possible benefits

Yeah, so they could just have kinetic killed the tree. Or dug under it.
No time, No capable weaponry, no reason.

Now I'm curious if the gas giant Pandora was orbiting could've survived their ship hitting it head on at .7c.
Gimme a moment. This might be hard to calculate, since the ISV's are technically impossible.

Well, the effects would be similair to one fourth (0.49/2) of the ships weight in matter/antimatter detonating.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 08:53:21 am by 10ebbor10 »
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Sheb

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #127 on: July 29, 2012, 08:53:16 am »

Dropping a rock doesn't reauire that much time or weaponry.

Also, how do they go back to Earth if they need an Earth-basedlaser to accelerate?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #128 on: July 29, 2012, 08:55:03 am »

Dropping a rock doesn't reauire that much time or weaponry.

Also, how do they go back to Earth if they need an Earth-basedlaser to accelerate?
They can arcelerate on their matter/ antimatter reaction too. The laser just allows them to cut costs, as it saves them up to 50% of their fuel requirements
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Skyrunner

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #129 on: July 29, 2012, 08:56:37 am »

Hmm, I don't think calculating it is possible... at least, not with any precision. Wouldn't factors like how the ship crumples, or how the gas dissipates force, or any other myriad of factors make it hard to know?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #130 on: July 29, 2012, 08:57:55 am »

Hmm, I don't think calculating it is possible... at least, not with any precision. Wouldn't factors like how the ship crumples, or how the gas dissipates force, or any other myriad of factors make it hard to know?
The ship is impacting at 0.7 c. At that speeds it doesn't crumple, it instantly vaporizes into plasma.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 09:00:01 am by 10ebbor10 »
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kaijyuu

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #131 on: July 29, 2012, 08:58:23 am »

I get the feeling it'd go straight through, for the most part.
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Sheb

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #132 on: July 29, 2012, 08:58:35 am »

Well, you could calculate the amount of energy the Gas Giant would absorb, the rise in temperature/pressure this would entail, and compute a rough estimate of how much material would be expelled.
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Kagus

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2012, 09:02:58 am »

No no no...
This one...
http://www.zombiewaffe.com/home/2011/07/11/page-1/

Page 10; ignorant bro comes up and makes false accusations of the main character being a Swedish immigrant named Steel.

For those who are not of the Scandinavian persuasion, Ståle means/is based on steel.  Furthermore, due to my own experiences with Americans attempting to pronounce Norwegian names, it'd be more likely for his boss to call him "Stole" or "Stool" than "Stale", unless she'd only ever seen it written.

Furthermore, "I am not drinking this" is not a sentence that would realistically be uttered by a Norwegian.

Fun facts: "Lars" is a common Scandinavian name, and whoever wrote this thing mistakenly left in the Norwegian spelling of "Migraine" on page 14.  That's as far as I've gotten so far.

There.  There's my nitpicking/funfacting done for the moment.  People should know better than to post links to webcomics in threads I may potentially read at some point.


Batman:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Warning:  While you were typing, 10 new replies have been posted.  You may wish to not give a tinker's bum and post anyways.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Nitpicks that Ruined Movies
« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2012, 10:25:06 am »

Batman:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Warning:  While you were typing, 10 new replies have been posted.  You may wish to not give a tinker's bum and post anyways.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 10:26:58 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
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