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Author Topic: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.  (Read 6276 times)

Meph

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Hey,

I was wondering what everyone here thinks about the different races, how you envision them. If I say Elf, everyone knows what I am talking about. Or do they ? Soul-eating, evil faerytale Elves (Terry Prattchet), highborn, immortal noble Souls trapped in eternal combat against evil (Tolkien) or nature-loving hippies (DF)

Since I am currently thinking about a mod that allows you to embark with any race in the game, come on, let me hear what you think the races should be like. What do they do, what items, what buildings, how do they fight...
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10ebbor10

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 01:31:40 pm »

DF's elves are rather mean actually. They eat the bodies of those they have slain in combat.
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King DZA

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 01:49:23 pm »

I always thought the whole devouring of slain sentients was more of a respect type thing.

Maxmurder

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 02:11:01 pm »

Dwarves: Short, sturdy creatures fond of drink and industry. These are the most ingenious of the races and have unparalleled mastery of metallurgy, engineering, masonry and distilling. However, common sense and personal safety seem to be completely absent from the dwarfish mind. 

Elves: Medium sized creatures dedicated to the ruthless protection of nature. Elves have long been seen as Hippies and the sentinels of nature. They are in fact their affinity for plants and animals is so strong that they refuse eat food conventional to the other races. They must, in order to survive, constantly wage brutal wars against the other races in order to maintain a reliable flow of sentient beings to feed to their people. These wars are usually waged under the guise of environmental protection.

Humans: Medium sized creatures prone to great ambition. They are the most mundane of the races. However they are very intelligent, silver tongued, and take lessons from the other races. They learn metallurgy, masonry, and engineering from the dwarves; animal husbandry and agriculture from the elves; Military strategy from the goblins and stealth from the Kobolds.

Goblins: Medium sized humanoids driven to cruelty by their evil nature. Goblins have been viewed as unintelligent monsters, slaves of demons, hardly to be considered a sentient race. However, they are actually quite intelligent and will make up for their shortcomings by adopting other races into their society. By maintaining a small population of each race within their dark fortresses, Goblins are able to make up for their technical, ecological and social inability.

Kobolds: Small, squat humanoids with large pointy ears and yellow glowing eyes. Not much is known about these mysterious creatures. They live exclusively in caves but seem to have a complex societal structure. Their natural desire for shiny objects drive many to become master thieves. They will gladly face a gruesome death for a fleeting glimpse of a legendary artifact. It is said that kobolds posses a powerful cloaking technology, mellinia more advanced than anything the other races have developed.
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Blucher

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 02:34:06 pm »

snip

I just had to say your avatar is awesome.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 02:56:08 pm »

I certainly think of the elves as some horrid blend of hippies and evil soul-eating monsters. Eating the dead to me is more an extension of their nature-reverent philosophy, to belittle their opponents, as if to say they're beneath any animal and thus to be taken as food, contrary to what those opponents think of themselves. Similar to how goblins abuse the bodies of their conquered enemies to humiliate them and their families. They worship nature, and anyone that doesn't love the forest spirit is worthless compared to anything in the natural world. They don't build any considerable infrastructure because the forest spirit will dole out what mercies they deserve. Elves are immortal, and mentally set up to change only very slowly, under the hardest circumstances, and thus they have the least cultural variety between civilizations. Being raised from youth to beleive this is the right path can be a powerful aid in this.

Goblins, then, are more of the "master race" sort of guys, that want to assert themselves in war. As much worship to their gods (or demons) as it is for politics. They run around with hideous masks to terrorize villages as they rape and murder their way across the landscape, just so the world will fear them. Other motivations often play in, but being the big guy on the block, and their ancient traditions thereof, is most important to them. Also being immortal, their society doesn't really change often, and when it does, it's usually for the sake of better warfare strategy. According to Three Toe's stories, they also have some sort of important role in other dimensions. One of their biggest strengths, playing off Maxmurder's reminder, is that they kidnap and brainwash members of other civilizations. In fact, their psycho-torturers possess great powers over the mind, and enslaved children can often become full-fledged members of goblins society, but will never pass for members of their home societies.

Dwarves and humans, in my eye, get divided into entirely different cultures more than the other races. Where elves will form different civilizations when they move to another forest to worship a different spirit, and goblins divide their forces when warlords fail to effectively control populations and eliminate opponents, the dwarves and humans divide most often on social or religious issues, and civilizations are often vastly different. Humans of course generally don't live underground, or not far underground, and never far from fresh water, while dwarves take any external environment for the same, as dwelling underground is of course the most fitting for their adaptations and lifestyle. Dwarves use mainly cavern resources, and dig in for fortification and because there's far more living and work space in the volume of the bedrock than in the two-dimensional lifestyle of humans. For that reason, dwarven populations can get big. Real big. And dwarves adapt technologically to the demand to sustain and defend that population. The prevalence of nonaggricultural industries is a part of this. Where the farmers have the food solution down, the biggest labor force goes into the mining, metalworking, and engineering industries, to help maintain infrastructure, and simply so that they have something to do. They also often suffer from oxygen deprivation (despite adaptations for running on low oxygen in the first place), making them unstable.

Kobolds are just incompetent little schmucks trying to survive. Their language is impossible to comprehend for outsiders. Most of a kobold tribe's culture is borrowed from the civilizations they live off of (like parasites, almost) and possibly emulate, but almost all kobolds share warfare strategy and tactics, and rely on theft and hunting for food and wealth.
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Monk321654

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 02:58:15 pm »

Dwarves: A race of insane psychos who are more then willing to get themselves crushed under a trolls foot to grab a sock. They have an affinity for deathtraps, and will use them without hesitation against anything they see as an obstacle, be it goblins, nobles, children or babies. They lack common sense entire, and their intelligence is used only for the purest, genocidal evil.

Elves: A race of vulgar fiends. They work under the guise of "environmentalists" but they really just want more trees to screw. They take the fullest advantage of nature, using their dark magics to twist the trees into un-natural shapes and cut them apart for profit. They also eat people out of pure spite.

Goblins: A counterpart to the dwarves, they are everything the dwarves are not; multicultural, kind, somewhat sane. They wage war against the world, for they see its true evil. They save poor helpless children from their evil civilizations and give them a place where they may grow. Their only draw back is that they usually work under the control of horrible demons.

Humans: The only truly sane race in the world, and more then willing to exploit it. They tower over the other races, in stature and power, and are more then willing to twist a few wrists to get a good price for trade. They are strategic in their attacks, waiting for their poor stupid foes to come to them before brutalizing them.

Kobolds: A race of mentally unfit monotremes, they are many generations behind the other races in terms of everything. They constantly try to steal everything from everyone, getting pulped in the process, and everyone hates them for their hopeless thievery.


At least that's the impression other DF players gives me.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 03:00:51 pm by Monk321654 »
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toomanysecrets

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 03:00:33 pm »

I consider dwarves to be hardened military experts as well as booze-loving daredevils. I know the majority of Bay12'ers think their dwarves are half-retarded, expendable alcoholics, but I try not to let things get out of hand (I don't drown traders or smash migrants etc).

I think elves should be much as they are in vanilla DF, stuck-up and self-righteous, but I wish they had armor and metal weapons or something D&Dish like ironwood at least. Elves should just be a little tougher IMO. Varieties such as wood elves (no cities or caravans), "high" elves who are administrators/rulers/traders would be cool.

Kobolds are kind of boring and useless considering they're so similar in size and attitude to the goblins. I think kobolds should just be replaced outright by orcs, gnomes, or some sort of loose-knit tribal race, i.e. barbarians (which could be a classification, needn't be a race).

Goblins are fine, you gotta have at least one pesky peon race that tries to overwhelm with their sheer numbers.

I've been tempted to try the Orc Fortress although I have yet to mod.....ever. This is very appealing, a strong, weak-minded race is a nice change from dwarves. Only other thing I can think of is some kind of half-dragon or serpent-like race that is sentient, I think that would be really fun.  Natural attacks, breath weapons, poison etc would be nice features.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 03:12:38 pm »

Kobolds are kind of boring and useless considering they're so similar in size and attitude to the goblins.

Kobolds are actually really tiny. Like, chew-toy tiny.
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Rez

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 03:25:33 pm »

Adult kobold body size is 20000 cm cubed
Dwarves are 60000 cm cubed
A dog is 30000 cm cubed.

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Maxmurder

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 03:37:10 pm »

Human:
Child body size
4,000 cm3
Adolescent body size
17,500 cm3
Adult body size
70,000 cm3

Dwarf:
Child body size
3,000 cm3
Adolescent body size
15,000 cm3
Adult body size
60,000 cm3

Elf:
Child body size
3,000 cm3
Adolescent body size
15,000 cm3
Adult body size
60,000 cm3

Goblin:
Child body size
3,000 cm3
Adolescent body size
15,000 cm3
Adult body size
60,000 cm3

Kobold:
Child body size
1,000 cm3
Adolescent body size
5,000 cm3
Adult body size
20,000 cm3

Humans are the largest of the races on it is likely that on average they stand about two feet taller than the others.
Elves, Goblins and Dwarves are the same size, there could be variations in height based on the typical build of each races body: Dwarves are short, stocky and heavily built; elves are slightly taller but are thin; goblins are probably in the middle of the two, I imagine goblins standing with a hunch which would make them appear shorter than they actually are. 
Kobolds are by far the smallest, likely only standing one to two feet tall and weighing about as much as a mid-size dog.
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Rez

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 08:12:12 pm »

I don't know that anyone has actually measured the volume of dogs, but I ventured in another thread that the dogs in df are probably mid-sized anyway, since a large dog could have a height contest with a dwarf with 4 paws on the ground.
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DavionFuxa

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 11:38:16 pm »

Dwarves - A Race that prefers to live underground or in the side of a mountain, and can live comfortably anywhere from the coldest tundra to the hottest desert. Though most Fortresses far from the Mountain-homes tend to become abandoned or get destroyed.

In Comparison to Humans, Dwarves are extremely short, but quite muscular, broad, and strong. They pride themselves on industrial endeavors, have a strong sense of community, and welcome trade with Humans, other Dwarves, and Elves - assuming the Elves aren't on a crusade against them. Actions by a Dwarf against another Dwarf are unthinkable in Dwarven society regardless of reason.

They believe in the fair treatment of sentient beings both living and dead, while having a strong community attachment to ensuring fallen Dwarves are honored and respected. Out of all the races they have the strongest sense of their surroundings; capable of entering a martial trance, but also knowing when they need to launch of a per-emptive strike against another civilization.

All and all, Dwarves are robust beings that strive for progress and the efficiency of their forts. However, where a Dwarf may not find his skills not being put to adequate use, he may set off on adventure outside of the Fortress into the World, or embark with other Dwarves to begin new Outposts or join fledgling Outposts for the glory of all Dwarves!

Humans - A Race that prefers to live above ground under the blue sky. While not like Dwarves in being comfortable living everywhere, Humans wills generally live in hills and fields in wooden houses or stone keeps. They will also live in forests - after they remove a tree or two hundred.

In comparison to the other Races, the Humans are the tallest and biggest with the average qualities in regards to everything else. Humans are greatly impressed with wealth and status, and knowing that their lives are shorter then the other races they go to great lengths to acquire it anyway they can. While Humans will quickly punish criminal actions, they do accept that sometimes there is a good reason for doing so.

They are also quick to protect their interests though and are quite naive and suspicious of the other races. Humans are somewhat like Dwarves in that they respect living and dead sentient beings, though they value their security and will willing torture others if they feel it is threatened and believe that not every peasant needs a coffin or a slab to be remembered.

Humans are ambitious and while they live they are always interested in acquiring more wealth or status. This can lead many to a life of banditry or to take the life of an adventurer, though for many just working hard in what they do can be enough for them as sometimes one can appreciate reaping the reward of his labors from his crops.

Elves - A Race that prefers to live outside in the shade of Forests and Jungles. Unlike Humans and Dwaves they are also fine with living deep in the Wilderness alongside natures creatures.

Elves are nearly as tall as Humans but far more slender and dextrous. They are also natures guardians and protectors and will quickly defend against transgressions that Nature cannot. That said though, Elves have a deep understanding of the social workings of other races and understand they have their own needs. As such they will always attempt to mediate with other races so they can reduce their transgressions against nature.

Outside of protecting nature, Elves tend to be more forgiving on criminal actions, especially where there is good reason for the actions, and mostly cast shame or exile on criminals. They care little about the dead but find it reprehensible to desecrate the remains of a corpse that should be left to be reclaimed by nature. That said, they won't let good meat go to waste either.

Looking past their fierce guard of Nature or their lax criminal action on criminals, Elves begrudgingly realize that sometimes you need to protect yourself. They will set out to put down a wild animal terrorizing a nearby Human Hamlet, or stop a band of Brigands from harassing Traders.

Goblins - A Race that prefers to live in Dark Fortresses, it doesn't really matter where those Fortresses are as the Goblins will be fine with living in them. Even in the undead walk outside or death rains from the sky, the Goblins are fine with staying indoors.

In comparison to Humans, Goblins come across as being short and frail; however they are also far more vicious and aggressive. Goblins are Evil by nature, and take great joy in attacking, plundering, kidnapping, and killing others. However, they are cowards and they don't enjoy those actions too much when done against them.

Goblins have no sense of ethics or laws and it is pretty well every man for themselves; it is basically the law of whoever has the biggest club. While there are Goblins Wives and Husbands, that doesn't stop the unmarried female Goblin from having babies left and right. It should come with little doubt that such conditions tend to produce quite a bit of rabble, but some of the produced rabble can become quite skilled.

Really, all a Goblin seeks is enjoyment. However, they get that enjoyment out of the misfortune of others. An Adventuring Goblin is little more then a vicious sociopath with a justified reason to maim, torture, and humiliate someone.

Kobolds - Just a tribal race that lives in Caves really, doesn't really matter where the Cave is either.

Kobolds are extremely small, but quite fleet of foot. They are greatly impressed with shiny or valuable items and like to accumulate as much as possible. They are also extremely paranoid around Adventurers, as they believe the only reason and Adventurer would be anywhere near their cave would be to hunt and kill them.

Kobold justice is similar to that of the Goblins, but this is mostly due to the overpopulating nature of Kobolds then anything else. Kobolds aren't Evil like goblins and they due have their tribal foundations in place to provide some semblance of community structure. This alone makes Kobolds much bolder then Goblins could hope to be, not to mention make Kobolds much better Tacticians then Goblins - for all the little good it does them though.

The Life of the Kobold is really just to serve his fellows. The Kobold does what he needs to to bring glory to his Tribe in anyway he can. Even as an adventurer, a Kobold would always be pushing forward to defend his Tribe.
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A Google Doc I wrote up in regards to making a new 'workable' definition for the Roguelike Genre:
Defining the Roguelike Genre

Nyan Thousand

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Re: Stereotypical Races. Dwarves, Humans, Elves, Kobolds, Goblins.
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 05:14:49 am »

Dwarf: Short, sturdy creatures fond of drink, industry, and really stupid shit. Dwarves are by far the most complex of the races, being the oldest. Most dwarves, however, are just really stupid creatures who usually end up dead. Their favorite hobby, by far, is to think up of new ways to get killed. In this respect, dwarves are leading experts. They base most of their decisions on whether or not it would be more "fun" that way. "Fun", of course, means something entirely different to a dwarf. Some theories suggest that dwarves actually invented demons and candy just to make things "fun". Loves magma as much as booze. All dwarves are males. "Female" dwarves are simply dwarves that either have no beards (and are cursed with a disease called "chin"), or carrier spore dwarves. Dwarves reproduce through spores, by the way. Hates elves with a passion.

Elf: Gay faggot dicks who fuck trees. They want to keep all the trees to themselves so they ban everybody else form cutting them down. Master liars and hypocrites. Also they eat their slain enemies. Possibly hermaphroditic, or reproduce through spores as well. Hates everything, but doesn't show it. Hates dwarves the most. Elves are usually good for fertilizer, or to help you get wood.

Human: As average as can be. Yes. Really. Grass is more interesting than a human. This is probably because they don't reproduce via spores. Most human settlements are based on a plutocratic merchant caste system, much like the merchant states of Northern Italy back then. With all this money though, for some reason, most humans never really go beyond menial tasks.

Goblin: Mad Max style thugs with dark fortresses and shit. Goblins are the natural enemies of dwarves, but the latter doesn't know this. While goblins are usually thugs, they also have a righteous calling that they undertake. See, of all the races in Dwarf Fortress, only goblins realize that the way dwarves treat their children is batshit insane. That's why goblins usually go raid fortresses to liberate these children from a life of suffering. Goblins are the good guys.

Kobold: Likes shiny things. Usually in the wrong place at the wrong time. Thrillseekers by day, poet-warriors by night. Kobold speak is far too complex for the other races to understand, and so they must live with the burden that nobody will truly grasp the trials of a kobold. Also they like shiny things.

I think this is a correct interpretation, no?
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