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Author Topic: Impire  (Read 18456 times)

cerapa

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2012, 02:12:43 pm »

The building hud worried me a little bit because it seems you will place entire rooms instead of designating room space but that's not a  deal breaker for me.
Sadly I cannot say the same.

The great thing about DK was that it was your dungeon. You build it just as you like. One of my best memories is of me playing the third level of DK(the one with the 3 gems at the bottom) and digging out the entire underground, with the exception of the walls around rooms. So it seemed like it was a city built in an underground cavern. And then training every single dude up to level 10.

And then there was that frog thing. I always sent a single frog thing into the next level, starting from the 3rd level. When it reached the ice level, I trained it into a dragon. Then trained the dragon to level 10 and just carried the darn thing through a lot of the levels. You could actually instantly win on the ice island level. Just possess the dragon and take a walk through the lava to the enemies heart.

Damn, DK was a good game.
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burningpet

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2012, 02:12:46 pm »

I have less than little hope in this.

the reasons:
1) Cyanide.
2) Dungeons (they had that annoying "control your demon self rpg style" that was just bad and it seems that this game gonna copy it.
3) Paradox. they used to be my favourite company but lately, bar magika which was extremely good and buggy, all i am seeing from them are bad buggy games. (except their primary and original strength in the grand strategy games)
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nenjin

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2012, 02:19:49 pm »

Quote
1.  Why can't a game like this be played straight?  It's always tongue in cheek.  Surely it's possible to make a serious dungeon keeper game without making it disturbingly evil.

Seconded. Sick of this cutesy fucking crap. DK might not have been dark or gritty, but at least it felt slightly more adult than virtually every other dungeon sim that has followed.

Did you play the same DKII I did, or was I high while I was playing it? It was a very, very unserious game to say the least.

Compared to Dungeons, DKII looks like it was thematically inspired by Marquis de' Sade. Sure DKII wasn't serious. But it wasn't obnoxiously cute either. I never felt like throttling my minions or adviser for how obnoxious they could be in DKII.

Quote
I thought we liked Paradox?

That was the jist of my post.

Quote
Paradox. they used to be my favourite company but lately, bar magika which was extremely good and buggy, all i am seeing from them are bad buggy games. (except their primary and original strength in the grand strategy games)

Although this bears mentioning. I still give them a lot of good will for Magicka.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:21:48 pm by nenjin »
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burningpet

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 02:24:16 pm »

Yeah, but how much of magika is Paradox and how much of it is was arrowhead? the fact the game got released buggy as hell is paradox to blame, the fact it is a fantastic game, that's arrowhead.

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nenjin

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 02:28:45 pm »

Well, Paradox gave the game a lot of support and good publicity, which is really what you should be asking of a publisher. I don't know if the humor and execution had anything to do with Paradox, but they supported the people who were probably responsible so....it's a publisher that I feel has an actual personality and supports good ideas (even if the games themselves doesn't necessarily deliver.)
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
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burningpet

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 02:32:46 pm »

Oh, there's no doubt that they are the only publisher that at least aim to deliver interesting games (well, ubisoft did some nice experiments lately, who knows, maybe it will bear fruits in the form of a good god game).
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nenjin

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 02:40:21 pm »

Between this and A Game of Dwarves, Paradox is going to corner the dungeon sim market.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Neonivek

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 02:51:51 pm »

Quote
Compared to Dungeons, DKII looks like it was thematically inspired by Marquis de' Sade. Sure DKII wasn't serious. But it wasn't obnoxiously cute either. I never felt like throttling my minions or adviser for how obnoxious they could be in DKII

Dungeon Keeper II was sort of both unserious and serious. Which is where I like to be.

It wasn't so serious as to be completely dark... but it was serious enough that you could take it seriously.

It is sort of where Majesty 2 gone wrong. It took the comedic elements of the original Majesty but it forgot the epic and serious aspects of the original too... creating a game you couldn't take seriously.

In the original Majesty there were epic stages against SERIOUS enemies and could even strike fear into you. The Lich Queen was to be feared and those who lost to her know that she wasn't playing around. Majesty 2 not so much.

It is where this could go wrong. It could take the comedic elements of Dungeon Keeper 2 too far and forget that there was a genuin dungeon atmosphere in there.
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GreatJustice

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 02:53:56 pm »

The building hud worried me a little bit because it seems you will place entire rooms instead of designating room space but that's not a  deal breaker for me.
Sadly I cannot say the same.

The great thing about DK was that it was your dungeon. You build it just as you like. One of my best memories is of me playing the third level of DK(the one with the 3 gems at the bottom) and digging out the entire underground, with the exception of the walls around rooms. So it seemed like it was a city built in an underground cavern. And then training every single dude up to level 10.

And then there was that frog thing. I always sent a single frog thing into the next level, starting from the 3rd level. When it reached the ice level, I trained it into a dragon. Then trained the dragon to level 10 and just carried the darn thing through a lot of the levels. You could actually instantly win on the ice island level. Just possess the dragon and take a walk through the lava to the enemies heart.

Damn, DK was a good game.

I've been told that DK was pretty cool, but I was something like 2 years old or so when it came out so I didn't ever get to play it unfortunately.

DKII was one of the best games I've played (or maybe that's just nostalgia talking), but I have to say it had some problems.

The patches actually made the AI retarded, made the game incompatible with modern computers (without running in compatibility mode and some other nonsense), and caused it to crash all the damn time. Looking at a big battle? Crash! Running a map for more than a couple minutes? Crash! Trying to save the game in case it crashes? Crash! Trying to open the menu that leads to saving so that you can save the game in case it crashes? Crash! Fortunately the release version of the game and the very first patch were quite stable and featured (mostly) intelligent AI, but there are few companies that release patches that actually markedly reduce the quality of the game. Plus, the last patch version's maps are incompatible with maps from every other version, which is somewhat inexplicable and really annoying.

Besides that, the campaign's difficulty was very...sporadic to say the least. The first couple of levels were piss easy, being tutorial missions. Then come a couple of maps where you can lose if you aren't careful, but are also sort of tutorialish (being for prisons, torturing, lava/associated creatures and casinos, respectively). Then there's that level where you have to catch the hero-gathering lord before he crosses the map, which is nigh impossible to succeed on your first run because unlike every other lord, who fights you on sight, when he sees a giant army/array of traps in his way he sprints right past at speeds that would make Usain Bolt jealous. Its easy once you know the trick (Lightning him as his guards all run right past, then dump a bunch of creatures on his face before he can get up), but a pain until then.

Then there's goddamn Woodsong, probably the hardest level in the game, in which you have to punch through a line of mid-high level heroes besieging a fairly weak keeper's heavily guarded base (through traps, as he only has goblins, etc in terms of troops) and then kill the keeper yourself. While you're trying to set up a base to do all this, you've got 4 Hero bases throwing attacks at you and throwing you off balance (since in practical terms you have to clear them all out before you even try to break the siege). Oh, and did I mention that this is a timed mission, and if you run out of time a gigantic high level hero army comes down and kills you? Plus, if the heroes kill the keeper instead of you, you ALSO lose. The timer "goes off" when you breach the walls of the enemy keeper, so not only do you have to beat him in time, you have to get through his entire base and kill him before the hero army (which, might I mention, is chilling out in the middle of the map between your two dungeons) reaches either dungeon and destroys either dungeon heart. There are two (somewhat counterintuitive) routes to winning this one, and if you don't know either this level will make you bash your face against the desk.

After that are a variety of fun and not at all difficult levels that are all very tutorialish up until the third to last level, a confrontation with your biggest Keeper rival, which is piss easy because he doesn't actually attack you ever. The last two levels are moderately challenging, but neither is anywhere near as hard as Woodsong. It's all really rather weird.

So what was my point again? Oh yeah, if Bullfrog made DKII open source making a great third would be a matter of improving the AI, fixing the engine to be less buggy with modern computers, and making the levels adhere to a difficulty curve rather than a difficulty spike-pit.
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Aklyon

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 02:56:08 pm »

You can't blame all the crashing on DKII, but some of it you can. Some of it is just Windows being derp with its attempting to emulate older hardware.
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Neonivek

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 02:57:52 pm »

You can't blame all the crashing on DKII, but some of it you can. Some of it is just Windows being derp with its attempting to emulate older hardware.

Well that and also there are ways to fix the crashing. Which I did.
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burningpet

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 03:03:46 pm »

Markets arent cornered easily, and what is corner anyway? wont let anyone else be able to profit in it? satisfy what ever this market needs? making the best games in this market? i am willing to put money on No on all aspects.
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nenjin

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2012, 03:13:01 pm »

Markets arent cornered easily, and what is corner anyway? wont let anyone else be able to profit in it? satisfy what ever this market needs? making the best games in this market? i am willing to put money on No on all aspects.

It was a turn of phrase, but please, continue to take what I said completely seriously and do your best to deconstruct it. :|
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

IronyOwl

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2012, 03:17:14 pm »

Holding the optimism away from the thread until we know more about it.
This. They have my attention, but we'll need to see where they go with it.

You can't blame all the crashing on DKII, but some of it you can. Some of it is just Windows being derp with its attempting to emulate older hardware.
Fun fact: Many of the game's problems on Windows XP, at least, came from SecuROM not liking it.

BUT I'M NOT MAD OR ANYTHING, HA HA HA.
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burningpet

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Re: New dungeon keeper!! - Impire
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 03:30:10 pm »

Markets arent cornered easily, and what is corner anyway? wont let anyone else be able to profit in it? satisfy what ever this market needs? making the best games in this market? i am willing to put money on No on all aspects.

It was a turn of phrase, but please, continue to take what I said completely seriously and do your best to deconstruct it. :|

Nah, its easily done. i guess that was a language barrier thing.
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