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Author Topic: Night terrors  (Read 10033 times)

AussieGuy

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2012, 06:58:33 am »

hello. ptw. but also, i'd like to comment that there are ways to induce sleep paralysis, if you guys want to try

you want to lie down on your back, preferably after you had some good sleep so you're not sleepy enough to fall asleep of boredom, then you relax your body and empty you mind. focusing on your respiration often helps, set a regular, comfortable rhythm and stay with it. then you stand very still. force yourself not to move, while keeping your muscles relaxed and limp. after a few minutes you'll be assaulted by urges to twitch and change position, deny and ignore these. the urges will get stronger and stronger, but after some time, 20 to 30 minutes maybe, you'll get a fuzzy *wave*(?) traversing your body as paralysis sets in, this may last a few seconds and is very noticeable, after it sets, you're on the other side.
i'd recommend against doing it after having read this thread as there has been a lot of terrifying situations described that may excite your imagination in the wrong way. put some oniric instrumental music instead, nothing too distracting, just to set a idilyc mood

I wonder why you'd want to induce this. I've had it happened 4-5 times and it's really horrible. The feeling of being unable to move as someone/something looks down on you is a experience I don't like to repeat.
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Askot Bokbondeler

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2012, 07:24:54 am »

it's not always like that, it depends a lot on your mindset. it is also one of the simplest ways of inducing lucid dreaming

jcannon98188

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2012, 08:21:41 pm »

hello. ptw. but also, i'd like to comment that there are ways to induce sleep paralysis, if you guys want to try

you want to lie down on your back, preferably after you had some good sleep so you're not sleepy enough to fall asleep of boredom, then you relax your body and empty you mind. focusing on your respiration often helps, set a regular, comfortable rhythm and stay with it. then you stand very still. force yourself not to move, while keeping your muscles relaxed and limp. after a few minutes you'll be assaulted by urges to twitch and change position, deny and ignore these. the urges will get stronger and stronger, but after some time, 20 to 30 minutes maybe, you'll get a fuzzy *wave*(?) traversing your body as paralysis sets in, this may last a few seconds and is very noticeable, after it sets, you're on the other side.
i'd recommend against doing it after having read this thread as there has been a lot of terrifying situations described that may excite your imagination in the wrong way. put some oniric instrumental music instead, nothing too distracting, just to set a idilyc mood

I wonder why you'd want to induce this. I've had it happened 4-5 times and it's really horrible. The feeling of being unable to move as someone/something looks down on you is a experience I don't like to repeat.


The same reason why people like scary movies. Because it is terrifying, but in the end you realize it is all in your head and no physical damage will actually come to you. Now if you could physically be hurt from this, then I'd agree don't do it. But honestly, I would love to have this happen once or twice.

Personally I have never had a experience like the OP but have plenty of nightmares where I cannot move and some great force of evil is coming after me. But this is always in full on dream mode, and never in my room or anything. Man what I would give to do this just once or twice. I think saturday when I get a chance to sleep in I might try the aforementioned technique of lucid dreaming.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2012, 07:20:25 am »

I wonder why you'd want to induce this. I've had it happened 4-5 times and it's really horrible. The feeling of being unable to move as someone/something looks down on you is a experience I don't like to repeat.
It's thrilling for some, and can help you more easily experience lucid dreams?

alway

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2012, 03:23:07 pm »

I wonder why you'd want to induce this. I've had it happened 4-5 times and it's really horrible. The feeling of being unable to move as someone/something looks down on you is a experience I don't like to repeat.
It's thrilling for some, and can help you more easily experience lucid dreams?
Aside from that, such experiences are in large part tied into your state of mind. They are usually terrifying simply because you 'wake up,' realize you can't move and it feels like there's a heavy weight on your chest. Your mind then turns that fear into a vivid hallucination of some sort of thing whose actions the paralysis state is attributed to. Such experiences are not by necessity terrifying, though generally they are very powerful emotionally due to your altered state of mind resulting from being partially asleep. For some, they are very erotic hallucinations; with the 'entity' created by the hallucination generally appearing of a culturally relevant type. In Ye Olden Days, they were known as Succubi; today, they are often reported as sex with space aliens.

As for how to avoid them:
1. Avoid sleeping on your back; sleeping on your back makes it 3-4 times more likely than all other sleep positions combined.
2. Lower stress levels
3. Get plenty of sleep and do so with a regular sleep schedule; in general, anything which makes your sleep cycle weird makes sleep paralysis much more likely.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 03:27:01 pm by alway »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2012, 03:26:02 pm »

Also having control over phobias before deliberately trying to induce one of those. Actually I'd say just don't deliberately do it.

Dutchling

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2012, 04:16:11 pm »

Why do all the cool stuff always happen to other people :(?
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alway

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2012, 06:45:33 pm »

Why do all the cool stuff always happen to other people :(?
From the stats I heard, you have approx a 70% chance of having at least 1 in your lifetime. Though if, like me, you don't sleep on your back, that number will drop pretty significantly.
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Corai

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2012, 06:48:31 pm »

Are these like dreams while you are "awake"? Meaning whatever the thing that watches you is, you can go "Hi" and it will respond?

Or is it just you shut down and your mind making imaginary things do erotic things.
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Svarte Troner

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2012, 09:33:03 pm »

Holy shit, my brother said he had one of these dreams last night, he said he was surrounded by shadow people or something...

Question: If you were to watch copious amounts of... pornography before going to bed, would you be visited by a large breasted blonde woman instead of a Nazgul?
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LordBucket

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2012, 10:56:51 pm »

Question: If you were to watch copious amounts of... pornography before going to bed, would you be visited by a large breasted blonde woman instead of a Nazgul?

I suppose that depends on whether one is of the school of thought that these things are hallucinations or third party entities. Though even if the latter, one's frame of mind might have an affect on the sort of entity one attracts.

Pesonally, to me the "it's nothing; it's all in your mind" view seems to fail the common sense test. If I become conscious of creatures standing over me...that I'm hallucinating is not the first thing to cross my mind. It's like Ebeneezer Scrooge insisting Jacob Marley is a bit of undigested food. You watch the play and immediately realize he's deluding himself. Why fall for the same delusion when it happens to you?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2012, 11:12:09 pm »

Pesonally, to me the "it's nothing; it's all in your mind" view seems to fail the common sense test. If I become conscious of creatures standing over me...that I'm hallucinating is not the first thing to cross my mind. It's like Ebeneezer Scrooge insisting Jacob Marley is a bit of undigested food. You watch the play and immediately realize he's deluding himself. Why fall for the same delusion when it happens to you?
Common sense tells you that people are being visited by aliens, daemons, and spirits instead of having their dreams spill over into their conscious perception? That fails Occam's Razor pretty hard from where I'm standing.

The brain can and does produce hallucinations on a regular basis. A hallucination is nothing more than a perception that has not been triggered by accurate sensory data. Dreams are hallucinations. That the state of dream hallucinations can occasionally spill over into semi-conscious reality is no great leap of logic.

I have tons of nightmares. I always have, and probably always will. I've even had occasional instances of sleep paralysis in my life that I am able to remember, and who knows how many I don't? There is nothing supernatural about any of it.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 11:16:16 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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LordBucket

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2012, 01:03:20 am »

Common sense tells you that people are being visited by aliens, daemons, and spirits
instead of having their dreams spill over into their conscious perception? That fails
Occam's Razor pretty hard from where I'm standing.

It depends on your worldview. I infer that you perceive "aliens and daemons and spirits" as less simple because the possibility that these things exist does not seen plausible to you. However, consider a hypothetical scenario: Imagine that you did believe that such things were possible.

With that belief, which would be the more simple scenario:

A) Due to poorly understood, but purely physical and/or biochemical causes...people throughout history have reported nighttime visitations by creatures. There are distinct trends and similarities amongst the descriptions of these creatures as well as similarities in their behavior. But it's a complete coincidence, and people are really just hallucinating these creatures rather than actually seeing real ones.

B) These creatures prey upon humans during a time when they're vulnerable and sometimes people notice.

Which is simpler?

Quote
That the state of dream hallucinations can occasionally spill
over into semi-conscious reality is no great leap of logic.

Maybe not, but if I'm startled out of a dream into the half-awake state to observe what might or not actually be...but most definately appears to be some sort of creature feeding upon me, which then appears to flee when I attempt to fight it off...and if I then spend the rest of the day feeling drained and tired as if vital energies had been drained away...it's also no great leap of logic to suspect that maybe what appeared to happen...might be what actually happened.

Quote
I have tons of nightmares. I always have

Ok. What if as a purely scientific experiment solely for the purpose of demonstrating how silly us people on the internet are...what if you were to in the privacy of your own home where none of us and no one you know would need to know about it...engage in corrective measures as proposed by some in this thread, such an prayer, mantras, or direct confrontation of your nightmare antagonists?

...and what if the nightmares ceased?

What would Occam's Razor have you conclude then?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2012, 01:35:51 am »

It depends on your worldview. I infer that you perceive "aliens and daemons and spirits" as less simple because the possibility that these things exist does not seen plausible to you. However, consider a hypothetical scenario: Imagine that you did believe that such things were possible.

With that belief, which would be the more simple scenario:

A) Due to poorly understood, but purely physical and/or biochemical causes...people throughout history have reported nighttime visitations by creatures. There are distinct trends and similarities amongst the descriptions of these creatures as well as similarities in their behavior. But it's a complete coincidence, and people are really just hallucinating these creatures rather than actually seeing real ones.

B) These creatures prey upon humans during a time when they're vulnerable and sometimes people notice.

Which is simpler?
You aren't portraying A very well, even if we are speaking of a hypothetical in which I believe in aliens, daemons, and spirits. These things are not poorly understood. They are very well understood. This distinct trends and similarities are present because these are very base horrors. Shadowed figures and eyes in the darkness are a very basic and vague fear, like being chased by an assailant or falling from great heights. It isn't a coincidence, it is the end result of how people react to instinctual feelings of fear. Humans have similar perceptions to one another.

Sometimes these hallucinations take the form of things like alien greys instead. Funnily enough, that almost never happens to people who don't believe in alien greys already.
Quote
Maybe not, but if I'm startled out of a dream into the half-awake state to observe what might or not actually be...but most definately appears to be some sort of creature feeding upon me, which then appears to flee when I attempt to fight it off...and if I then spend the rest of the day feeling drained and tired as if vital energies had been drained away...it's also no great leap of logic to suspect that maybe what appeared to happen...might be what actually happened.
And what, in all of human history no one has ever walked in on one of your spirits draining someone? No one has ever captured or recorded the existence of one in any way? There's a great leap of logic for you.

I can't move at all during sleep paralysis, hence the name. Some people can, but your spirit fleeing when "fought" isn't because it's actually there, it's because you aren't able to actually interact with it (because it doesn't really exist) and so your brain comes to its senses and stops hallucinating it.

As for feeling drained, these incidents are very terrifying to most people. Being extremely scared and confused, even for a short period of time, can be exhausting. It could be considered the mental version of a full sprint.
Quote
Ok. What if as a purely scientific experiment solely for the purpose of demonstrating how silly us people on the internet are...what if you were to in the privacy of your own home where none of us and no one you know would need to know abobbut it...engage in corrective measures as proposed by some in this thread, such an prayer, mantras, or direct confrontation of your nightmare antagonists?

...and what if the nightmares ceased?

What would Occam's Razor have you conclude then?
What if indeed. I'll respectfully decline your experiment. Praying is something I don't do anymore, and as before I can't move during sleep paralysis. I have tried to fight in nightmares before. I usually die horribly, and when I die in my dreams they either get very strange or reset to an earlier point.

You know what makes my nightmares less common? Not having a stressful day and staying away from horror-themed things. That's all nightmares are, a reaction to stress and anxiety in the waking world.
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G-Flex

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Re: Night terrors
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2012, 01:38:06 am »

It depends on your worldview. I infer that you perceive "aliens and daemons and spirits" as less simple because the possibility that these things exist does not seen plausible to you. However, consider a hypothetical scenario: Imagine that you did believe that such things were possible.

With that belief, which would be the more simple scenario:

A) Due to poorly understood, but purely physical and/or biochemical causes...people throughout history have reported nighttime visitations by creatures. There are distinct trends and similarities amongst the descriptions of these creatures as well as similarities in their behavior. But it's a complete coincidence, and people are really just hallucinating these creatures rather than actually seeing real ones.

B) These creatures prey upon humans during a time when they're vulnerable and sometimes people notice.

Which is simpler?

It's not about things being "possible". I believe that aliens are possible. That does not mean that aliens are a simpler explanation for this, for example, than normal physiological/psychological processes. That is damn silly.

You have to understand how occam's razor actually works. If aliens are responsible, for instance, that raises a hell of a lot of questions. Since when are aliens doing this? Why? Where are they from? It introduces more undefined variables and raises more new questions than a simple biological explanation, whether you think aliens are a plausible thing to exist or not. For example, I believe that it's possible for the government to shoot people and cover it up if they were to try hard enough, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to assume that they're responsible for some random murder when there's no particular evidence of that sort of connection.

It's also not implausible at all, nor should it seem so, that people across different cultures and eras would experience similar things, because people are made out of the same stuff and have similar biological/neurological processes. Hell, fundamentally, we're mostly the same throughout. We experience many of the same things every day, in all cultures, common or not, whether it's hunger, needing to go to the bathroom, deja vu, having a word on the tip of our tongue we just can't get at, having dreams about certain common themes, or any number of little biological or psychological things that are common across the globe. People sleep, dream while they sleep, sometimes hallucinate while they're falling asleep/waking up, and can't move while they're dreaming. It's extremely plausible that something like sleep paralysis is just one of those things common to how the human brain works every once in a while, just based on those simple facts. More importantly, it doesn't introduce new undefined variables or raise more questions. That's why it's the "simpler explanation". The real, material explanation of sleep paralysis fits perfectly well with what we understand about the world, is consistent with it, and does not really raise further questions that need to be answered. The other interpretation of this: It requires fewer assumptions of what those unknown variables are. If you figure it's aliens, you're assuming that aliens are not only possible, but real, that they can access Earth, have some sort of reason and capability to do these things to people, and succeed without being detected beyond the vague feelings interpreted by people... and probably some other things necessary for this to be true, that we don't know. Those are huge leaps to take when determining whether or not a given explanation is plausible. The physical, scientific explanation, on the other hand, requires very few, if any assumptions of new information beyond what we already know about sleep and the human brain, and even if it does (the most you have to assume is that those sleep processes are capable of screwing up in this particular way, which isn't much of a leap), they're things which can be relatively easily tested and confirmed.

Now, if a person's worldview already involves those things (demons, aliens, whatever assumptions are necessary) to make the alien/demonic/whatever theory more simple to them and requiring fewer new assumptions or questions, then sure, that would survive occam's razor, but personally, I'd say that's only true because that worldview itself probably had failed occam's razor a long time ago, in assuming things about those creatures in the first place as the result of whatever forged that worldview to begin with.

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Maybe not, but if I'm startled out of a dream into the half-awake state to observe what might or not actually be...but most definately appears to be some sort of creature feeding upon me, which then appears to flee when I attempt to fight it off...and if I then spend the rest of the day feeling drained and tired as if vital energies had been drained away...it's also no great leap of logic to suspect that maybe what appeared to happen...might be what actually happened.

Sure, except that the alternative explanations have more evidence for them. Yes, it's a great leap of logic to assume that an extremely implausible event that happened when you weren't even really awake yet actually did happen for real, in spite of the lack of evidence against it, the evidence for alternative explanations, and how simple those other explanations are. If I have a dream about some kind of freaking anime character and wake up feeling like it really happened, it is not more reasonable for me to assume that anime characters are real and that I was meeting them in some other universe or something.

Quote
Ok. What if as a purely scientific experiment solely for the purpose of demonstrating how silly us people on the internet are...what if you were to in the privacy of your own home where none of us and no one you know would need to know about it...engage in corrective measures as proposed by some in this thread, such an prayer, mantras, or direct confrontation of your nightmare antagonists?

...and what if the nightmares ceased?

What would Occam's Razor have you conclude then?

It would have you conclude that meditative practices or other means of comforting yourself would prevent you from having nightmares, because this explanation is totally in line with what we understand about the human mind: That doing things to put you at ease about something puts you at ease about something. It's damn near self-evident. Making yourself feel more at ease about your nightmares could very plausibly help not to have them or to be more in control of them, regardless of why the method supposedly works. Occam's razor would have you conclude that the method worked, but not that it worked because you actually beat up Bigfoot.
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