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[zombie urist]

When you asked him that if he thought there was no NK.
Ok.
Thank you. We can finally move on.
Yeah but that was 2 days ago and since then you've only made small asides to answer questions.
Yeah, but I've never done that RiA stuff. Your meta argument doesn't work. I'm basing my "guide" on your actual past performances, which (if I remember correctly) includes BYOP and BYOR8.

[Orangebottle]

Yeah but that was 2 days ago and since then you've only made small asides to answer questions.

My last FoS to Imiknorris was only a few hours ago, and it was following on a lead. Just because they're 'small asides' doesn't mean that I'm tunneling. I'm not only suspicious of you, and I've used my finger to point out my suspicions of others while voting for you because you're scum.

Yeah, but I've never done that RiA stuff. Your meta argument doesn't work. I'm basing my "guide" on your actual past performances, which (if I remember correctly) includes BYOP and BYOR8.

...Claiming to not know basic mafia concepts/language when you've been in several games isn't RiA? We were in the same BM, zombie. You started around the time I got serious about mafia, you should know these things by now.

[zombie urist]

My last FoS to Imiknorris was only a few hours ago, and it was following on a lead. Just because they're 'small asides' doesn't mean that I'm tunneling. I'm not only suspicious of you, and I've used my finger to point out my suspicions of others while voting for you because you're scum.

Ok.

...Claiming to not know basic mafia concepts/language when you've been in several games isn't RiA? We were in the same BM, zombie. You started around the time I got serious about mafia, you should know these things by now.

That's the first time I've ever seen it used. I've also never seen anyone attempt RiA except possibly Webadict. Also thanks again for ignoring my arguments.

[Orangebottle]

What arguments? Oh, you mean the thing about burden of proof? Thought that was part of the same thing. You should probably format your posts better.

When you asked him that if he thought there was no NK.

I'm still not seeing it. If anything, I'm trying to change the focus of the argument onto him//deflecting. As I said, it's on him to prove that I'm scum for the reasons he said I am.

You haven't answered my questions from two posts ago:

Where do I contradict myself a lot? Where do I simply dismiss your arguments as stupid and not attempt to explain them at all? Where's your evidence?

[zombie urist]

Extend.

[Urist Imiknorris]

ZU:

From Tiruin.

So?

Yeah, but I've never done that RiA stuff.

...you said, after berating Toaster for not throwing caution to the wind when lynching. Really, the only way you'd be playing to win was if you were a jester.

Who do you suspect other than OB?

Extend. Probably won't be able to make another post until tomorrow afternoon.

[Orangebottle]

Extend if necessary.

Also, Mod: Votecount, please.

[Hapah]

Extend.

Toaster: So you'd rather have you vote nowhere than on ZU, with less than 8 hours left at the time of this post? Why? Where do your suspicions lie?

UI: I don't follow. Covering for who?

Lesson time: Mafia Theory 101.

If you win by being nightkilled, the best approach is to antagonize the mafia - the ones who are guaranteed to be able to get you what you want. That is done by playing the best damn town game you possibly can. Trying to appeal to vigs runs the risk of getting lynched instead, and I have never seen a role that wins upon their death regardless of cause.

Anyway, while I agree that mislynches happen and are unfortunate, the fact remains that town's goal is to minimize them. By lynching scum. So I'll ask you again - why don't you care if he's scum or not?

Except that we both know that that is a load of crap. I'd be completely shocked if everyone in this game doesn't have sort of damaging ability. Which means that ZU wouldn't necessarily have to make himself a threat to the scum, he just has to make himself a compelling target in general. Hell, if anything, there's more town than scum, so he'd want to make himself look like an easy/scummy target so he takes shots from the majority. Does this seem unreasonable?

[IronyOwl]

Extend. Still distracted and lost, will do better soon.

[Dariush]

Votecount:
NativeForeigner - ;
Toaster - ;
Hapah - Urist Imiknorris, ;
Orangebottle - zombie urist, ;
IronyOwl - ;
Tiruin - ;
Shakerag - ;
Phantom of the Library - ;
Urist Imiknorris - ;
zombie urist - Orangebottle, Tiruin, Phantom of the Library, Hapah, Shakerag, ;

Not voting: NativeForeigner, Toaster, IronyOwl, ;
LurkerTracker link

LT doesn't work for me, so I manually counted votes. If I got something wrong, please inform me. Any doublevotes, votesteals and so on will be displayed on the list as normal ones, so any mistake is an actual mistake.

Day has been extended until 5PM, Monday (I count weekend as one day). There will be no more extensions.

[Urist Imiknorris]

Native: Why are you not voting, and where is the post you promised?

Hapah:

UI: I don't follow. Covering for who?

Native.

Except that we both know that that is a load of crap. I'd be completely shocked if everyone in this game doesn't have sort of damaging ability. Which means that ZU wouldn't necessarily have to make himself a threat to the scum, he just has to make himself a compelling target in general. Hell, if anything, there's more town than scum, so he'd want to make himself look like an easy/scummy target so he takes shots from the majority. Does this seem unreasonable?

Honestly? It would be perfectly reasonable, except that lynches are a thing.

[Hapah]

UI: Ohhhh, I see. I didn't want people asking me about why I didn't post. I didn't think to read it that way.

And what if he's a Jester? How would your Jester and Martyr play differ?

[Urist Imiknorris]

Oh, he did post. That's what I get for rereading first thing in the morning.

UI: Ohhhh, I see. I didn't want people asking me about why I didn't post. I didn't think to read it that way.

I don't think you do see. Why mention Native at all?

And what if he's a Jester? How would your Jester and Martyr play differ?

If I was a jester I'd scum it up, but subtly, so that people didn't realize I'm a jester until I flipped. If I was a martyr I'd hassle everyone so that no matter who the scum were I'd be on their list.

[Hapah]

UI: Because he explicitly stated he had a post coming here.

And do you think that holds true in light of the fact that the scum don't have a real NK?

I don't think I'm good enough to influence in what way people decide to kill me. Either you look scummy and you get lynched, or you look scummy and catch an attack or five in the night. How could you steer people towards one or the other?

[Orangebottle]

Still waiting on a response to that last post, Zombie.

Toaster:

Bad town is town, and lynching town is a MISlynch, which is a MIStake.

I disagree.

While bad town is town, they're still bad. Bad players can, at best, be very distracting, and at worst, be so bad that the scum easily manipulate them into traps and plans. And, at the end of the day, I'd rather have the best town players at LYLO, because bad town are more likely to make the wrong decision and cost us the game. Now, I'm not saying I'd support lynching bad town over certain scum, but it's better to mislynch bad town than it is to mislynch good town.

See: Sorcerer's Apprentice III(page 35), where Vadia cost town the game by unvoting IronyOwl at what was essentially the last second, and didn't vote for an extension when they were able to and one was requested. While hindsight is 20/20, the better moves would've been to either let the vote tie and see what happened at night, or extend.

I still think we need consensus on claiming HP, though that may better wait until D2.

Alright, let's have a vote, then.
I vote not to claim HP, for reasons I've already stated.