Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Karl_Marx]

I often hear that the cold war is over. They say communism died, the soviet union fell and the threat of nuclear word war III is over.

Let's make one fact clear. The cold war was NEVER about communism. Communism fell once Stalin came to power and Trotsky was thrown out. Years before the second world war. And before work started on nuclear weapons. The underlying cause was neither the threat of nuclear war. That was just a means of oppressing ones own people. Just a propaganda show from both sides. To make their people believe that fighting "communism" and "capitalism" was a just cause. The underlying cause was conflicting imperialism. From two superpowers. Due to the economic differences "sharing" the "puppets" was no option. This led to a conflict over puppet states. And many proxy wars.

Three types of puppet states exist. I included some examples too.

-A proletarian puppet(bulk workforce for cheap production).
    -China, India, Mexico, South Asian countries.

-Resource puppet(countries with natural resources.)
    -Saudi Arabia, Iran and India.

-Military puppet(countries for intimidation and for maintaining other puppets and power)
    -Israel, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Cuba.

These are the three tools of imperialists. And without these you can not support a superpower. How isolationist Germany fell during WWII. These puppet states are created through "liberation" as the west block would call it. And "revolution" as the east block would call it. Both of course lies. This led to many proxy wars. And proxy civil wars.

In 1952 the democratic elect prime minister of Iran was overthrown by the US and Brits. Leading to the Shah regime. Which provided oil for the west. Overthrowing a regime like this is not easy. So revolutionaries need help from somewhere. So they ask the soviets for help. And they get help. Thinking that the soviets where not imperialists. They helped them fight imperialists, right? Well, so came the Islamic revolution of 1979. Now they could have the oil for themselves. But now suddenly the soviet union had all the oil. In return for weapons. Counter weighting Israel as a military power in the middle east. Now the soviets had both military and resource puppet.

The same story happened many places in the world. In fact there where not a single anti-imperialist revolution that was not hijacked. But if the cold war fell. Then all the east bloc puppets would be either free or isolationist regimes by now. Well in no way is that true. The east Block still exists strong. With almost all of it puppets intact. And Russoa still stands strong. With mostly the same motives and methods. Just not as internally authoritarian. The west block still also has many puppets. And the military side of it? Well, they basically said. "Let's not nuke each other". But the proxy wars still rage on.

Syria, a good case. Lost to imperialists. Syria is a puppet of the China-Russia. As a military outpost. And buyer of weapons. But who supports the revolution there militarily? Qatar, UAE, Turkey and Saudi Arabia. All puppets of the west block. It has become a proxy war. Why does Obama only condemn the dictators of Iran and Syria(both east block), but not the Arab monarchies(all west Block)?. Well, he does not want them to become democracies. Where the west block loses power.

Do you think the cold war is over?

[Karl_Marx]

I'm sorry. The first coup in Iran was in 1953. Not 1952.

[Loud Whispers]

Freedom of information + Interwebs

So yes, it's gone. Doesn't mean to say any other war is over really. Competition can be a nasty thing.

[Hubris Incalculable]

Well, to be honest, my opinion is that the so-called "war to end all wars" never ended. The cold war was just a period in the great war, and the middle east conflicts of today are also part of the same war, which started in 1914.

[Karl_Marx]

Freedom of information + Interwebs

So yes, it's gone. Doesn't mean to say any other war is over really. Competition can be a nasty thing.

The relations are still the same. With the economic and geopolitical situations. The internet is instead a new challenge to the imperialists. One of the reasons the means are less authoritarian(especially in the west). And agendas are more packed in.

[Il Palazzo]

According to your definition, the cold war not only is still going on, it has been going on since the dawn of mankind.
Every political entity that ever used subterfuge, diplomacy, propaganda, or any other non-military means to spread its influence outside its own borders could be considered as engaged in a cold war.

In the sense that the term was coined for, the cold war ended with the dissolution of the Soviet Union and its consequent loss of the superpower status.

[Loud Whispers]

Freedom of information + Interwebs

So yes, it's gone. Doesn't mean to say any other war is over really. Competition can be a nasty thing.

The relations are still the same. With the economic and geopolitical situations. The internet is instead a new challenge to the imperialists. One of the reasons the means are less authoritarian(especially in the west). And agendas are more packed in.

Yes, but it's no longer the cold war that's being fought. Now any serious political party has to be careful what it does in full view of the world and its people.

[AntiAntiMatter]

The cold war is, to my knowledge, over. Yes, Russia and the US still fight for influence, but relations are no longer such that the only thing keeping them from outright war is MAD. For the most part, the two blocs have been content to let each other be, and are no longer fighting proxy wars against each other.

Furthermore, I question your identification of puppet states. While some of the nations you have cited were actual puppet states at one point or another, none of them are now- The term puppet state implies that the state is under the de facto authority of a foreign power, and the ones you cited are not- China, for instance, while providing cheap labor for the west, has also supported Russia on the matter of Syria. Your "puppet states" would be more aptly described as allies and/or trading partners.

[Glowcat]

According to your definition, the cold war not only is still going on, it has been going on since the dawn of mankind.

Well yeah. It's the cold war. It was started during the Ice Age.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*rimshot*

[EveryZig]

China is our puppet, which is why it has all our money  .

[kaenneth]

Yep, if the value of the money we owe china were to crash; they would be screwed.

Sadly, the ongoing conflicts in Afghanistan, Korea, etc. are leftovers from the Cold War, and I would say we have the responsibilty to clean up after them.

[Loud Whispers]

Sadly, the ongoing conflicts in Afghanistan, Korea, etc. are leftovers from the Cold War, and I would say we have the responsibilty to clean up after them.

It's not going to happen with Israel or Korea any time soon :/

[sneakey pete]

Well, to be honest, my opinion is that the so-called "war to end all wars" never ended. The cold war was just a period in the great war, and the middle east conflicts of today are also part of the same war, which started in 1914.

Though you haven't specifically outlined it, I assume that you're referring generally to the great powers of Germany/France/England being great and powerful. If that's the case, you could say the conflict has been going on since the 1800's, or probably even before.

[Putnam]

China is our puppet, which is why it has all our money  .

Yes, and if we went down, it would lose all of that money. We own them because they own us.

[MarcAFK]

WW1 was basically caused as a result of what napoleon did to the holy roman empire/ germany and other parts of europe, what happened in france during napoleon was a result of what happened earlier in history, hell go far enough back and you could blame the vikimngs/romans/greeks/babylonians/cro magnon.
Basically wars cause shit a hell of a long time afterwards and you can't really say a conflict has ever finished as long as it's decendants are still alive and identify themself as being different from those in power where they live.
The american civil war ended years ago but a hell of alot of people in the south are still pissed at the government in a way that is similar to what started that war.
The aztecs haven't controlled central america for 300 years but the people living there that are oppressed by mexico/the us still identify with them in a way that may cause a new AZTEC empire to come into being if things ever got that bad.
The 'cold war' ended ages ago as both russia and the us are completely bankrupt,  but there is definately a new cold war developing with the mistrust between china and europe/the us.
Even europe is basically bankrupt and there seems to be the same kind of cold war relationship developing between it and the US.
Just some random points, also the struggle between 'capitalists' and 'the opressed masses' will never end and evey so called peoples revolution always serves to swap out the old corrput evil opressors for new evil corrupt opressors.