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Author Topic: [ORC] Discussion and Download Latest! (v1.42B)  (Read 142264 times)

smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #315 on: January 16, 2013, 02:55:00 pm »

Yep ty, caught that, and also poison seeds are currently free I think  ???

here's an update mostly the manual, with these couple bugfixes too

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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:15:26 pm by smakemupagus »
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gwathlobal

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #316 on: January 16, 2013, 04:44:55 pm »

Bloodsteel featureless masks turn into bloodsteel necklaces when reforged in the molten pit (first time i decided to use this feature  :o). Which can be worn on the chest by civilians. Is this the supposed result?

Boreal plants are so boreal. I do not understand their availability, actually. In the previous version I embarked near an ocean (non-freezing) and my test aboveground farms had lots of new "winter" plants. But I did not need them at the time ;) Now I embarked near a river (again non-freezing, no idea was it further south or not) and I can not plant all those icicle mints and kobold bulbs when I need them :) So where are they supposed to be planted?

Poisons. Not so potent as I expected. Applying poison to weapons is a PITA. Standing squads tend to grab the best weapons that are available, no chance to apply poison on them, so I had to disband squad, apply poison, recreate squad. Besides, slashing weapons are good enough for killing even without poisons. What's the use of numbing you opponent when in 5 ticks he will have all his limbs removed? Thirdly, weapons take blood spatter from enemies and then instead of poison start to apply blood. Finally, somehow orcs are able to remove spatter from items which includes poison, and reapplying returns us to item one (PITA).
Applying on ammo should be more efficient, though. Traps - no idea, but I think they will likely suffer from the same clean&reapply problem.   

Just random thoughts and impressions. I finally got the hang of how to survive the first two years. You absolutely need anthracite and as many boulders as possible. Thread and cloth and ropes are also mandatory because with new farming rules you are unlikely to get your pig tails/rope reeds quick. Then you reveal, dig to the available metal and start making tomahawks. I chose them because they are melee/ranged weapons (pretty cool, btw. Those high-brow dwarves do not have their equivalents, do they?) Throwing tomahawks will be your trade good for the first year. If you are lucky you should have deposits of coal, peat and the like. Then all your problems are solved. Dig the metals, smelt the coal and produce the equipment. By the end of the first winter you should have a fully-equipped squad of orcs. I usually equip snagas or uruks depending on the caste availability. Set them to melee training but make some ammo so that they do not get to the enemy without first showering it with projectiles. If you are not lucky and did not have coal deposits then you'll have to deforest the whole map and pray for a elven prisoner in a drydock. Give him meat (of which you should have a steady supply) and he will make you wood out of nowhere (btw, maybe not meat but fish, or plants? Because dwarves take booze and all the rest take meat. On the other hand - you yourself can live on fish while meat is being fed to prisoners). In spring you get your elven ambush which should be dealt with with at most 1-2 casualties. In autumn dwarves are likely to block your caravan with their siege. Sometimes you will be able to fend them off and have the caravan reach you. By that time it is nice to make composite bows, 1000 arrows and a full squad of bowmen. They could be used to get rid of the dwarves as the midgets (ok, due to time-space anomaly we are the same size now) will not even attack if sufficient distance is maintained. Then everything should be smooth.
Yeah, and that's with trading partners removed. If they are enabled, things should be even easier.

Looked into the raws of society arms. Pretty cool! Maybe some orichalcum and deep bronze items? Because right now it seems that only sea wolf arms can be of any metal. Native orc arms require specific weapons which are bloodsteel or welded mithril only. Non-native arms can not be manufactured at will. Btw, are non-native really two-handed? Because a unit without a shield is a sitting duck for enemy archers (or so I think).

P.S.  And yet one more thing. Archaeologist is not able to excavate relics.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:59:09 pm by gwathlobal »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #317 on: January 16, 2013, 06:36:13 pm »

Good catch, at molten pit the Helm refit reaction specifically was typo'd.   I usually only used the "refit mail" :)

Archaeologist, I will have to look into later.  Probably, Meph changed how it works in the MDF2 and I didn't yet update the Orcs' entity file so far.

---

Boreal plants, grow in:
[BIOME:FOREST_TAIGA]
[BIOME:FOREST_TEMPERATE_CONIFER]
[BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_WETLAND]

Kobold bulbs are a vanilla plant .. i think it's ANY_WETLAND?  (swamps and marshes)

Poisons, great feedback, I don't have much experience yet with it myself.  It's a pretty new thing that we're all just playing with at the moment, and I just copy the system from MDF. Other than the Orcish poisons of course.  I suspect that coating darts or bolts with poison, and then making weapon traps out of flachette guns or crossbows, is going to be my favorite way to use it.  (because you don't have to worry too much about the spatter wearing off, you just prepare new ones and they reload) 

Thanks for the impressions. To fight back that elf first strike I usually equip uruks with macuahuiltls/greataxe and best armor possible, back up with any scrubs with jagged spears & shields, snaga with bows.  If I strike coal or have dense forest it'll be metal, otherwise I do as much hunting as possible and use tribal craftsman. 

But, sometimes I don't get enough crafts done.  I like your system because the crafts and weapons are the same, and tomahawks are pretty fun :)

re: prisoners, I think Elves are carnivores in DF.  Maybe the humans should eat fish and the Drow eat plants, or something, but I hadn't really thought it through that deeply yet.

Yeah, some people really swear by 2H weapons once your guys have high weapon (parry) and dodge, I tried to have a pretty good mix of stuff in the Society Arms for different styles of fighting.  It just so turned out that it was the foreign arms that were all 2H.  (Lifeguard and Assassin already each contain a 2H weapon as part of the kit anyway)

Meph

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #318 on: January 17, 2013, 04:07:13 am »

Maybe make the plants ANY_LAND and only autumn and winter. or freezing only, for glacier embarks.

about the archeology: yes, major change. New entity entries: (excavate stones stays, all other are replaced by those)
Quote
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_1]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_3]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_4]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_5]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_6]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_7]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_8]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_9]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_FOSSIL_10]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_1]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_3]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_4]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_5]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_6]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_7]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_8]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_9]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_RELICT_10]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_1]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_2]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_3]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_4]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_5]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_6]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_7]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_8]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_9]
[PERMITTED_REACTION:PREPARE_TREASURE_10]
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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gwathlobal

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #319 on: January 17, 2013, 04:11:28 am »

On we go. To get steel in the molten pit you need coke specifically. Charcoal won't do. Is this the supposed behavior? Because on maps with no mineral coal you are... well, not screwed, you still have steel-making reaction from the smelter... but, let's say - disadvantaged.

As for tribal workshop. I think we made it too hardcore now, because it is easier to dig to metals than wait till your oil plants grow (esp. now with new harder farming rules) and then studs and then lamination (and then ash). So the main stumbling block here is lamellar leather. Maybe replace it with simple leather but no less than 3 items so that you'll have to hunt or butcher in order to get you claws made. Besides you'll still need armor from somewhere.

Btw, how do weapon traps with ranged weapons behave? I only made dagger-based traps. So they need to be armed with ammo and then when the enemy steps on them - they shoot it?

And one more thing. Maybe instead of "buy poisonous seeds" reaction add "buy poisonous plants" directly, because as stated above you won't be able to grow the required plants everywhere. Which will effectively prevent you from using them (caravans won't bring much).
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Meph

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #320 on: January 17, 2013, 04:18:38 am »

Quote
how do weapon traps with ranged weapons behave? I only made dagger-based traps. So they need to be armed with ammo and then when the enemy steps on them - they shoot it?
Yes.

About the oil: I plan to do mineral-based oils in the chemistry part, once I get to it. As well as oil from fat/tallow.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v033] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #321 on: January 17, 2013, 11:35:03 am »

On we go. To get steel in the molten pit you need coke specifically. Charcoal won't do. Is this the supposed behavior? Because on maps with no mineral coal you are... well, not screwed, you still have steel-making reaction from the smelter... but, let's say - disadvantaged.

I didn't even know that was possible ^^, but yeah, you're right.  fixed.

Quote
As for tribal workshop. I think we made it too hardcore now, because it is easier to dig to metals than wait till your oil plants grow (esp. now with new harder farming rules) and then studs and then lamination (and then ash). So the main stumbling block here is lamellar leather. Maybe replace it with simple leather but no less than 3 items so that you'll have to hunt or butcher in order to get you claws made. Besides you'll still need armor from somewhere.

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing playing last night, because of oil the new Harder Farming pretty much shuts down the Tribal workshop for the first year, unless you come across some exotic leather somehow.  The tribal craftsorc can skip studding by the way, he can directly laminate ANIMAL_EXOTIC (boiled) leather.

I'll have to think how I want to work with that, your idea is a good one.  Another idea would be to let tribal crafter harden leather directly with tallow.

Quote
Maybe make the plants ANY_LAND and only autumn and winter.

What I really wanted was for them to grow naturally only in a few biomes including, TIAGA, but be able to grow in winter everywhere.  But, this is not possible I guess.

Another small update today

0.34
---------
* archaeologist - update entity to MDF2 version
* typo helm reaction at Molten pit
* bug fix, serrated vs. toothed typo @ Falcon arms
* balance, Berserker arms now uses craftable jagged axe main hand
* bug: fix reax at Molten pit and fire arrows to use COAL:NO_MATGLOSS
* balance, gain HARDEN_TALLOW_ORC leathre->exotic, helps tribal warcrafter esp. under HARDER FARMING
* Tribal warcrafter gains adamantine claws (not best weapon ever, but only 1 raw adamant)
* Tribal warcrafter gains adamantine macuahuitl (gives Jaguar society a late gameboost too)
* Damasc gains adamantine katana (gives Dragon society a late game boost too)
* Damasc gains adamantine daikatana (gives Blademaster societys a late game boost too)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 06:07:08 pm by smakemupagus »
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CheatingChicken

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #322 on: January 18, 2013, 01:09:56 pm »

I have to say, Necromancer Traders are a really really bad thing :D

It just ressurected (is that how you spell that? I am never sure with that word ^^) a severed gnoll hand that somehow had landed on my inaccessible walls. Now i know what scared the traders every time they try to leave :D

Also, there seems to be something wrong with my home civ o.o
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« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 02:43:04 pm by CheatingChicken »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #323 on: January 18, 2013, 02:15:56 pm »

LOL,  That is some well-designed currency.

CheatingChicken

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #324 on: January 18, 2013, 02:49:16 pm »

There is a baby in my basement that is just calling to the wind to make it suffocate the dwarven siege that is just camping next to my volcano-hole ^^
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gwathlobal

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #325 on: January 18, 2013, 04:22:42 pm »

And yet again :)
No magma crucible for orcs and there is typo in 'grind wolfram to powder' reaction which makes the reaction turn wolfram boulders into nothing. Out of 5 people who play Orc Fortress (judging from Meph's poll in the neighboring thread) nobody seems to use polehammers. ;) 
Btw, broodmothers give birth to dwarven children. Do they become a member of my civ? With my full control over them and such? Will they need alcohol?
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smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #326 on: January 18, 2013, 04:52:32 pm »

thanks, again ^^  I've definitely used polehammers in previous versions, I must have broken it somehow along the way.

Both shuold be fixed in 0.34b.  But damn, my 34a is a beautiful embark on a hillside volcano, and I just finished carving walled terrace farms, I will miss the magma crucible :P

the other one ... it was just a missing bracket on the PRODUCT tag for [REACTION:MAKE_WOLFRAM_ORC], since it's a change inside a reaction , i think you could even fix in existing save if you wanted

Broodmothers, I have no idea, they're not really intentionally an orc mode feature.  Interested to hear how it turns out. :D
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:04:58 pm by smakemupagus »
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gwathlobal

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #327 on: January 18, 2013, 05:32:31 pm »

I genned  Icy Myr and had drows knocking at my door as early as the 3rd day of the first spring month of the second year. Quite a surprise!
Btw, you are able to get various tomes by excavating relics, but they are useless to orcs, right?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:43:12 pm by gwathlobal »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #328 on: January 18, 2013, 06:12:03 pm »

Yeah, tomes are useless, as are Guardian of Armoks and the golem casts (at least you can melt those down).  Gem-of-Armoks you probably will just have cut and encrust, like titanium or chromium.  Archaeology is an inexact science ;)

gwathlobal

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Re: Orc Fortress [v034] for ☼MASTERWORK☼
« Reply #329 on: January 19, 2013, 01:48:32 pm »

Ok, so the experiment into broodlords turned out to be a disappointment. Broodmothers indeed give birth to dwarven slaves. As of year 2 those slave become children who are not part of your civ or group. They are forever content and form relations only with fellow slaves. Sometimes they even become mature dwarves (while still being of age 2). You can assign jobs to those dwarves but their won't perform them :) However, the point is that those dwarves are unable to use wells or drink from barrels. So their fate is to die several months later of dehydration :'(
I wonder how they perform in a dwarven fortress...
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