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Trinimac

Malacath

Gork

Mork

Morgoth

Saruman

Bhall

Father Sky

[Meph]

The evil civ graphics are on my todo list, but I never got to it. Not yet. ^^ If you have finished sprites, I will gladly accept them. I only remember the preview jpg with all of them that you posted once.

About trading:
How come you are allied with goblins and orcs, but not frost giants, warlocks and automatons? That surprises me a bit. It it because they dont have the pack animals to come trading? Or are they really your enemies?

Best case, from my perspective would be:
[SPR] Goblins
[SUM] Warlocks
[AUT] Tiaga Orcs
[WIN] Frost Giants

Automatons hate all living things, so no trading here, (I could actually make them opposed to life, but they would kill their mounts in invasions then) and I would remove the orc entity, because orcs and taiga orcs is... one orc type too much. ^^ And if people want to, they could activate the evil twins, and have additionally:

[SPR] Evil Elves
[SUM] Evil humans
[AUT] Evil dwarves
[WIN] Evil drow

[smakemupagus]

Actually , I was thinking of asking you to turn the Warlocks & Frost Giants hostile ^^  Although I know some players at least used to mod the Frost Giants to trade.  Either way would be better than just plain peacefull with no trade

Frost Giants, I have tried but I thought they seemed too powerful for allies, they kill the (good) Drow invaders for you pretty easily at least before the really big armies start to come.  Warlocks I've never even tested as friends, I assumed they'll set fire to their own caravan and your whole base as soon as they see a raccoon

Any way, long story short, This would be my preference:

[SPR] Goblins (no wagons), Evil Elves
[SUM] Goblins (no wagons), Evil humans
[AUT] Evil dwarves
[WIN] Evil drow

(...) and to be clear, i think the player would probably choose just 1-3 of these 5 for an optimal game

[Meph]

Turn them hostile? They are hostile, and so are your orcs. I could temporarily turn them friendly (remove the babysnatcher tag) to make them hostile to your orcs

The goblins without wagons in 2 seasons and the removal of normal orcs are no problem. I assume you just forgot to mention your own civ in autumn?

[smakemupagus]

Yeah that's right, home civ still comes in autumn   As the good kind of hostile.

Here's my modded graphics tiles
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7306

[Meph]

Ok.

My line of thought way that orcs are evil, and therefore have the DwarfFortress enemies as allies. You fight warlocks, frostgiants, automatons and goblins in DwarfMode, but your trade with warlocks, frostgiants, automatons and goblins in OrcMode. Of course I have no clue what kind of tradegoods these civs bring, but it would be a bigger change then using carbon copies of the already known human/elven/dwarf/drow civs.

On the other hand it is a lot easier to balance the tradegoods, and people can get used to them easier, because they know the races.

[smakemupagus]

Well, in principle I mostly agree with you... I only prefer to fight them because they're tough enemys, and not really designed/balanced to be good allies. 

I used to have them supported as trading partners you know ("Extra 'evil' trading partners for Orc Fortress 020" http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6833 in fact), until right now i thought you made the decision not to merge that in to MDF2.

...
Maybe I should say, not designed and balanced *yet* as good allies?
....

In MDF.2f,

* Warlocks will trade in 3 month    [SUMMER][AUTUMN][SPRING], they have PACK but no PULL.  My mistake for saying otherwise, but in fact I think they have been at --War-- in every other world I've genn'd, which is actually pretty cool.  (Note, Warlocks have very crazy and different ethics than Tiaga Orcs, Warlocks civilization has PUNISH_CAPITAL killing or torturing *anything*, freind foe animal or plant)

* Frost Giants are friendly but confirmed NO TRADE.  Looks like, they lack any trade animals.
* Automatons ... I hope they're hostile, but I can't get them to survive world gen

[leafar]

Warlocks I've never even tested as friends, I assumed they'll set fire to their own caravan and your whole base as soon as they see a raccoon

i have warlocks as trade partners in my current fort, it does take a bit more than a raccoon - an orcish caravan guard would do...
it's !!FUN!! to have a warlock start a fire in your aboveground fort, but it reduces wood supplies
i wouldnt mind loosing them as trade partner

another thing: when gobbo traders leave with caged animals you get an announcement that "The ... has made of with a ..."; i suppose this is because of the snatcher-tag? not really a big problem, though its a little confusing at first

(this is in the version included in MW-2c (or d?), so might be out of date)

[gwathlobal]

Bug spotted. Goblin tinkerer takes tetrahedrite for galena reaction.

[smakemupagus]

Bug spotted. Goblin tinkerer takes tetrahedrite for galena reaction.

thanks, confirmed and fixed for 0.33

@leafar,
ty for feedback on warlocks; not much we can do about that "made off with a ...!" message unfortunately.

[gwathlobal]

Random thoughts on goblin's stonecutter. I am not sure that all those rock-based weapons and ammo are necessary especial taking into consideration the time you get it. You are unlikely to set up the dock, siege workshop and such during the first year and on the second year you'll can already be besieged. So by the time you'll get it - you are likely to have metals. So all those reactions are redundant. Has anybody compared rock tomahawks with metals (e.g. copper) ones?  But what I really would like to see there is the "block -> boulder"  reaction
Btw, some of the tinkerer's smelting reactions have no [PRODUCT_DIMENSION] in the results. Is it ok?

[smakemupagus]

I use rock ammo mostly for training at archery targets (it is great for this), or hunting in safe biomes. 

I don't use rock melee weapons for much but I guess some players use them for "dodge-em" traps.  I might also let them get used up at the Weight Set for training, just wasn't high priority.

> Btw, some of the tinkerer's smelting reactions have no [PRODUCT_DIMENSION] in the results. Is it ok?

No, not ok, LOL.  Thanks again.

[gwathlobal]

Hmm, maybe I'll try making training ammo. I usually do not do this as those guys take a lot of time to change ammo, half of them go into combat with training ammo, then they go back. And you usually need to react fast.

And darts from kobold tracker are ammo to what? And where do I produce this "what"?

Farmer's market definitely needs a "buy poisonous plants" reaction

And is it intended that orc size is now the same as dwarven size? In previous versions dwarven armor was small to me. Now it ok, and orcs (not taiga orcs, but normal orcs) bring large armor.

[smakemupagus]

Darts are for blowgun (mediocre weapon, made at bowyer) or Flachette gun (pretty decent weapon, made at Goblin tinkerer). 
Flachette gun fires pretty fast and trains up the same skill as pistols and muskets. 
The gunpowder weapons should be better than either kind of dartgun, but darts are more available than bullets.

 edit.
Yeah, I don't know either why the size of gear has changed.  Taiga orcs (default caste) are still the same body size as regular orcs, which is 85000 units.  Masterwork Dwarfs (70000) are a little bigger than vanilla (60000), I just discovered now.  That is bigger than snaga or dreamwalkers, but smaller than orcs or uruks.  And I don't think that that Dwarf size has changed since MDF2.

Fun fact:  Taiga Orcs become "adult" laborers at age 5, but don't reach full size until the vanilla coming of age at 12.  Unlike Masterwork dwarfs, who are full size adults at 5.  I don't know that this is related to the other thing, but who knows ^^ 

[smakemupagus]

v033 (for MDF2f) upcoming in a moment, see original post



You can now capture "prisoners" (items) on raids and ransom them at the Caravanserai's Shadowbroker.  You can also instead deploy them in little shops, where they'll do manual labor in exchange for food (booze, in the dwarves case).  You can always break down the workshop later to ransom them.

Notes

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

0.32
---------
* actually, comment out GEM_PREF properly :/ :/
* caught a typo bug that caused some orc castes attribute ranges to be wrong, most notably STR of uruks

0.33
-----------
* greatly decreased the wild frequency to of boreal plants (2-5) and now seeds value should = plants value
* fixed Tinkerer Galena reaction
* fixed product dimension of several reax at Tinkerer
* quality of Seawolf and Assassin gearkit now depends on worker BLOWGUN and BOW (not sword and dagger)
* Shadowbroker can acquire: Goblin, Kobold, Merchant for (somewhat excessive) coin
* Crafted rock arrows are now the same type as our domestic onese (jagged)
* Gave the gob stonehut BLOCK_BOULDER_ORC
* Allow Tribal Crafter also to make stone blunt weapons, club and maul, same reax as stonecrafter
* Make Tinkerer and Kobold hunter Iron darts batch use the same reaction
* Added an enchant mithril arrow option to Fletcher, with Elven tools of course
* exchange copper coins too to orc shillings at Freelancer
* sell poison plant seeds at merchant
* purchased anvils are now IRON not pure-iron
* kobold poisoner has orc unique poisons PINKSKIN_BANE (boreal plants) and CADAVERINE_BLIGHT (kobold bulb, meat)
* arms bazaar sells bronze crossbow, silver warhammer
* arms bazaar traps a little more expensive
* common bazaar steel/coal a little less expensive
* Goblin migrants no longer in a box ^^
* ITEM_CAPTIVE_DWARF and others defined, and available on raids
   * Merchant raids can provide either captives or goblin migrants
   * Shadowbroker can ransom captives (a random significant amount of coins, and a statue)
   * Labor camp buildings can be created with captives
* Treesinger can now perform elven mithril smelting reaction (requires steeloak saplings)

[gwathlobal]

Drow reaction of farming silk is in the elven camp. A bug, I presume?