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Trinimac

Malacath

Gork

Mork

Morgoth

Saruman

Bhall

Father Sky

[smakemupagus]

The "slash" attacks from a macuahuitl are similar to the slashes from a regular longsword; the "rake" attacks get a little extra contact area but much less penetration depth; and as you might expect, it lacks a piercing/stabbing strike.  Ideally it should tear up unarmored foes like gryphon, but be less effective than a longsword against armored foes. Similar principle for the Toothed Axe and Toothed Spear (well, spear has a pierce of course, that is probably our most versatile weapon).

Let me know after playing with Macuahuitl a bit if it still feels too powerful, we can put in some mild nerfs (such as give it a piercing strike mode but make it relatively weak) ... I'm OK with the bloodsteel being very effective, since you really have to dedicate to the bloodsteel industry to get them en masse

[Wrex]

The "slash" attacks from a macuahuitl are similar to the slashes from a regular longsword; the "rake" attacks get a little extra contact area but much less penetration depth; and as you might expect, it lacks a piercing/stabbing strike.  Ideally it should tear up unarmored foes like gryphon, but be less effective than a longsword against armored foes. Similar principle for the Toothed Axe and Toothed Spear.

Let me know after playing with it a bit if it still feels too powerful, we can put in some mild nerfs (such as give it a piercing strike mode but make it relatively weak) ... I'm OK with the bloodsteel being very effective, since you really have to dedicate to the bloodsteel industry to get them en masse

They behave like a massive, edged club being used by an enormous, angry humanoid. Before we go nerfing anything, remeber that a dwarf with a bronze short sword can bisect a troll.

[smakemupagus]

Yes, I'm inclined to think they're mostly OK as is, just putting it out there that I'm always open to balance feedback

[smakemupagus]

Made it through a long playthrough to become the 'great-clanholding' with no major problems, so I'm calling this version good to go version as 0.2.0.  (with two bugfixes: a typo in the MW195 Boiling leather in oil reaction, and I had previously forgotten to remove Trap_Avoid from the Tiaga Orcs; thanks Wrex.)

I was hoping to sneak in an update of the Orcs' language file to more of a Tolkien's Black Speech dialect rather than 'Goblin,' but, it turns out that is actually really a lot of work ^^  I will probably continue that but not worth keeping the new version in limbo for it.

[fire1666]

Just been spending some time playing around as the orcs, but ive had some serious trobble with the local wildlife *COUGH*fecking centars*COUGH* can i ask are there any tips for early game defence as orc's, since there rather lacking in the mechanic path and i dont feel like stonefall trap metropolis would work for them.

Therwise ive been having some large amounts of!!!FUN!!! witht his, i especily love the trading mechanic as dorfs, makes starting as farmers more intresting.

[smakemupagus]

Ouch, Yeah, Centaurs are tough.  The good news is they aren't armored so wood/bone missiles or crude traps can hurt them, and once they're in pain your melee orcs can finish them with basic weapons or even wrestling. 

I usually bring leather (or animals at least) for quivers, get a bowyer in early and use archers/hunters for early defense.   Alternatively try a tomahawk or bola throwing squad.  Get Hunters or ranchers early to supply leather, bone, blood for your tribal craftsorc and fletcher which can then make very nice weapons. 

The Freelancers cutlasses or cat'o'nines are available if you have any of the stuff that they will buy (totems, large gems, booze).  Otherwise there's the regular Masterwork early defense stuff; you can do Rock clubs at the rockforge and Bone spears at the Boneyard.  Those make OK trap components too.  Shields and lupine masks from whatever is handy.

[Wrex]

The standard "One entryway with a drawbridge into a mountain" is still sadly the best course of action.



Also, Snake, you rember the spore man in taintbroil? Turns out that gas kills anything smaller than orcs.

[smakemupagus]

Well, depends what you mean by "best" of course   But yes, doors, bridges, and trap corridors are still good.

That's interesting about the spore man, but did you do arena testing, or some how do testing involving dead spore men in wells?  The orcs aren't *that* much bigger than humans, and snaga are smaller.  They only have a little bit boosted toughness & recuperation, and they actually have lower than standard disease resist.  And, I double checked that they do have
   [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
so... huh.

The Spore man syndrome is pretty interesting, it is SIZE_DILUTES effect as you mentioned, but also RESISTABLE and the paralysis and unconciousness effect have only a 20% probability.  Adds a lot of uncertainly to testing the lethality.  Anyway, I think Meph is taking out the 'syndrome mans' in MWDF2, or at least confining them to deadly biomes.

[Wrex]

That's good. those things are far more dangerous than they have any right to be.

[Sarkovar]

You don't need Orcs for your defenses when you can bring along spiders the size of horses! For real though, I've only had to deal extensively with Centaurs once but my Orcs brought along two polar bears instead of dogs soooo yeah, it took three centaurs attacking at the same time to kill one of the bears and seriously wound the other before my Warchief could get out there and finish the last centaur off with his bare hands. We buried the human portions, but there was no sense in letting 75% of 3 horses go to waste, I mean honestly if you didn't know were it came from could you really tell the difference?   

[fire1666]

Ouch, Yeah, Centaurs are tough.  The good news is they aren't armored so wood/bone missiles or crude traps can hurt them, and once they're in pain your melee orcs can finish them with basic weapons or even wrestling. 

I usually bring leather (or animals at least) for quivers, get a bowyer in early and use archers/hunters for early defense.   Alternatively try a tomahawk or bola throwing squad.  Get Hunters or ranchers early to supply leather, bone, blood for your tribal craftsorc and fletcher which can then make very nice weapons. 

The Freelancers cutlasses or cat'o'nines are available if you have any of the stuff that they will buy (totems, large gems, booze).  Otherwise there's the regular Masterwork early defense stuff; you can do Rock clubs at the rockforge and Bone spears at the Boneyard.  Those make OK trap components too.  Shields and lupine masks from whatever is handy.

Thanks for the advice Smakemupagus it starting to help me out alot with defence, usualy bring 2 or 3 wild boar sows with 1 wild boar bull, supplys a nice ammount of meat and bone for wepaons and food, the leather is pleantful too.
Im going to have a shot at a long fortress and try to get past about 6 sieges, could take some time and alot of attempts but wish luck .

[smakemupagus]

Good luck, let us know how it goes  

[smakemupagus]

Obsidian, as far as I know, is glitched and dosen't actually cut things. I could be wrong.

Ah, I understand the mechanism of this now since I saw that Urist daVinci linked to the actual bug report and etc. in one of the other threads you mention this in    I implemented Urist's fix/workaround, so future Orcish obsidian macuahuitls should cut through flesh if not copper. 

If you want to implement yourself in other DF versions please see
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91297.msg2541922#msg2541922

[smakemupagus]

since I accidentally "reserved" this post by double-clicking, I'll use it to store some notes on my thoughts for ongoing development in 0.2.1

Spellcasters:  I like the old system of learning spells a la carte, but it really just doesn't work well in DF, since the player has no way to check which of his Dreamwalkers knows which spell.  So, I am going to switch to a system more like Masterwork where your Dreamwalker transforms  caste to either Sorcerer or Druid.  Each archetype will learn ~3 spells permanently.  Additional spells maybe can be added to your repertoire on a temporary basis by something like reading a scroll.  In general I like the spells but some of them need rebalanced (e.g. Healing only tends to target the caster)

Balance changes:

* Certain buildings such as the Rockforge and Trap Engineer will no longer be available to the Orcs immediately on embark, but will require 1 or more Looted Fine Dwarven Tools item for their construction. 

* Freelancer will sell scimitar instead of cutlass (just to remove 1 redundant item), option to buy steel instead of iron for greatly increased price.

* Wraithblade and Ivy-whip could use buffs both to their melee attack and rune spells to be competitive with other good weapons; Copying Meph's new AOE spell-ammo system might help here.

New base industries:

* Orcish Tinkerer:  Makes modestly useful items out of lead, tin, etc.; possibly at random?  May also make Basic Orcish Tools consumed by the Factory to perform advanced operations.

* Orcish Blackpowder Shop:  Initially can make blowguns and flachette guns (shoot darts).  With advanced materials can make poisoned darts.  With Looted Human Gunsmiths Tools can make rifles and grenades.

* Orcish Society Lodge:  An expensive workshop; an orcish answer to the Human/Dwarven weaponry, but the system is different.  The Orc brings two weapons to the Lodge and combines them into a "dual wield" or other advanced weapon load out.  Mechanically this will be implemented a single "weapon" item of course.  Costs are TBD, maybe very expensive to unlock a society but only medium expensive to make each kit.

- Jaguar Society Arms:  Wield a macuahuitl and warclaws as powerful melee gear.  May be singlegrasp.  Native.
- Seawolf Society Arms:  Wield a pistol and scimitar together. May be  singlegrasp.  Native.
- Falcon Society Arms:  Wield a jagged spear and bolas.  May be singlegrasp.   Native. 
- Dragon Society Arms:  Wield a katana and composite bow.  Doublegrasp.  Native.
- Bladedancer Society Arms:  Dualwield a katana and daikatana.  Doublegrasp.  Requires Looted Drow Blade Codex.
- Lifeguard Society Arms:  Wield a rifle and polehammer.  Doublegrasp.  Requires Looted Human Rifle Codex.
- Cavebear Society Arms:  Dualwield a jagged axe and pick.  Doublegrasp.  Requires Looted Dwarven Axe Codex.
- Assassin Society Arms:  Wield a greatbow and large dagger.  Doublegrasp.  Required Looted Elvish Bow Codex.

Updated special drops in loot tables for raiders.
I suppose this might be considered spoilery info depending on how you roll, so I'll tag it

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

* Humans
- Looted Human Gunsmiths Tools (Consumable) - Used in special reactions at Blackpowder shop.
- ? Blueprint.
- Looted Human Rifle Codex.
- Healing spell scrolls? etc.

* Dwarves
- Looted Dwarven Fine Tools (Consumable) - Used to unlock a handful of Dwarven style workshops, or in special reactions.
- Magma Source Blueprint.
-* Fill rail tankers and flasks with magma or water.
- Looted Dwarven Axe Codex.
- Stoneskin spell scrolls? etc.

* Elves
- Looted Elven Fletching Tools (Consumable) - Consumed in special reactions at the Fletcher.
- Treesingers Pagoda Blueprint
-* Ask Nethercap to become Armor
-* Ask Steeloak to become Spear
-* Ask Ironoak to become Arrows
-* Ask Fungiwood to become Greatbow
-* Adopt Cherry Saplings (food/wine)
-* Adopt Olive Saplings (food/oil)
-* Adopt Tea Saplings (caffeinated drink? / aboveground)
-* Adopt Grotto Coffee Saplings (caffeinated drink? / underground)
- Looted Elvish Bow Codex.
- Druid's Codex.
- Chain lightning spell scrolls? etc.

* Drow
- Looted Drowish Alchemy Tools (Consumable) - use TBD
- ? Blueprint
- Looted Drow Blade Codex.
- Sorcerer's Codex.
- Corpse explosion spell scrolls? etc.

* Ruins
- Ancient Foundry Blueprint - make alloys, weapons and armor inspired by the crafts of Dwemer and Orsimer

* Merchants
- Caravanserai Blueprint - buy and sell things for silver and gold coins; trade away Masterwork stuff that Orcs can't use

[fire1666]

Well guys im back uncucessful, damn elfs killed me!
im just experementing with some different setups atm but i have a question, is it better to rush raiding then to make your own weapons?