Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

Trinimac

Malacath

Gork

Mork

Morgoth

Saruman

Bhall

Father Sky

[smakemupagus]

I uploaded a first cut of a manual for Orc Fortress here:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7287

Here are a few snippets to give you the feel for it. 

Philosopher's Garden

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Even the least intellectually curious Orcs can be convinced to partake in activities such as: bellowing their thoughts at random to passersby, or delivering rambling semi-dramatic soliloqies to the skulls of defeated enemy. A savvy clan leader may be able to frame these activities in a way that promotes learning. At the philosophy podium Orcs can train a variety of mental skills, and will use up totems, cloth, and paper supplies at a rate of about 1 piece per 10 skill advances.

Ancient Foundry

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The ancestors of modern Orc-tribes were nomadic warriors, masters of mail armor, axe, and blade, all crafted from the legendary alloy orichalcum. Orichalcum blades are as sharp as mithril, and legends tell that it was the perfect metal for rune-swords, because the blade itself would hunger for battle. Sadly the technique of crafting this extraordinary metal was lost when the great Orcish cities and forges were burned in the last age.

It is said that the Dwarves once knew a mystical formula of bronze, as dense as gold and harder than steel. Mechanical gears made of this Deep-bronze would seem to correct their own movement as if they know the mind of their creator, and the Dwarves of this bygone age made mechanical crossbows that could fire a bolt through a keyhole at a thousand paces. It is whispered that one of the most terrible curses enacted by the mad Dwarven blood god, Armok, was to erase the secrets of Deep-bronze from the minds of the forgemasters.

Legends and whispers are not normally your domain, as leading an orc-clan is an inherently practical function. But still: Your advisors claim that ruins, not so very far from your domain, hold a functional prototype of an ancient foundry -- older than the foundations of the ruined Black Citadel, and older than the roots of the deepest Mountainhomes. Can you afford the resources to indulge the Freelancers in this strange quest, likely no more than an archaelogical curiosity?

Magma Source

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our outriders have been tracking a number of new dwarven settlements in the contested frontier. As you know, we track these settlements closely since dwarves are prone to maddeningly stupid behavior, and failed fortresses might as well be free loot. This settlement we're visiting today is the key one -- yes, warchief, it is on an aquifer. Yes, on a carp breeding ground, exactly. They might as well start crafting their own gabbro coffins? Yes, warchief, that's what we thought as well. What's more, they just drilled straight down into the aquifer like a addleheaded human child. Yes, warchief, it is madness.

There, on the edge of the, do you see this building? It has wheelbarrels of coal going in? Those are tankers coming out. Tankers? It is like a mine-cart, but see how it is full of water? Yes. Well, yesterday it was full of liquid fire. Many coal loads went in, and many tankers of liquid fire came out, and then the dwarves went back into the pit with their picks. Yes, I'm sure. Yes, two of them came running out with their beards on fire afterwards. Yes, warchief, it is madness.

...You are pretty sure that your scouts are not creative enough to spin this tall tale with no basis. But, is it really possible the dwarves have this technology?? If so, is it possible that the little bearded marvels are so stupid to deploy it for mining an aquifer in some third rate provence forty league south of the middle of nowhere? If so, is it possible that this technology is portable enough to fit in a Freelancers' longboat?

[smakemupagus]

There is a new development version posted, it fixes a number of things, but on the other hand is very not tested yet

The main thing to test is for improved compatibility with MDF2 (there were just a few loose ends to tie up), and I also changed the way that Dreamwalkers learn spells to be simpler and hopefully, more transparent.  Balance changes and etc. too.

See first post for details.

>>>>

Why not make a nice, rare caste of orks that are good at doing raids ?

They should look like this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[CASTE:CORSAIR_MALE]
      [CASTE_NAME:corsair orc:corsair orcs:orcish]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

      [MALE]
      [BODY_SIZE:0:0:6050]
      [BODY_SIZE:1:0:21000]
      [BODY_SIZE:12:0:85000] 
      [NATURAL_SKILL:SIEGECRAFT:3]
      [NATURAL_SKILL:SIEGEOPERATE:3]
      [NATURAL_SKILL:BLOWGUN:3]
      [NATURAL_SKILL:APPRAISAL:3]
      [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:SIEGECRAFT:150]
      [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:SIEGEOPERATE:150]
      [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:BLOWGUN:150]
      [SKILL_LEARN_RATE:APPRAISAL:150]   

[CREATURE_CLASS:ALL_CREATURES][DESCRIPTION:A powerful humanoid creature with violent tendencies.  Tiaga Orcs build their strongholds in the twilight lands at the margins of the world.  Corsairs are Orcs taken with a passion for buccaneering and adventure.  Renowned for their skill with fire-arms and ballistae, the Corsairs true value to the clans is an uncanny ability to accurately assess the value of both trade and plunder.]
   [POP_RATIO:2]

[Meph]

The manual looks good

How about a "brute" caste, or something similar, with a higher bodysize, for dual wielding big weapons ?

[gwathlobal]

How about a "brute" caste, or something similar, with a higher bodysize, for dual wielding big weapons ?

Don't Ronins fit the requirements?

As for the tips and tricks section of the manual.
I did a 30-year-old orc fortress and I can say the dwarves are in fact weaklings, advanced materials or no advanced materials. For one thing they can not boast a complete set of armor (the issue has been previously discussed, so no comments here), secondly unlike other races they make their armor and weapons of various materials, some of which rather not suited for war purposes (gold mail shirts, silver helms). So their superior metal-working can be manifested only in a couple of dwarves out of more than a 100 during a siege. But what is more important - they do not come with mounts. And mounted units are the most dangerous ones due to constant trampling. I had three all-legendary uruks against a human siege (all mounted). The orcs were just constantly dodging and blocking with practically no time to make a strike. In worst case scenarios they were just get cornered and dealt with. On the contrary, those three uruks were able to get rid of any dwarven siege because they are who stomp smaller dwarves in this case.
So, instead of "fear the beard" the line should be "fear the horse".

[smakemupagus]

Hi Gwathlobal, thanks for the counter points, all which you say is true.  Particularly I do wish the Dwarves would choose their gear a little better.  I guess I'll tone down that Tips a little bit.

I went back and looked at some of my testforts where I had fun battles with dwarves and find that I typically did crazy things like this, "... built a ramp down through two caverns to the surface and simultaneously throw all the gates open to release: Dwarves, Golems, a Web-Spinning Forgotten Beast, and some Troglodytes. "  Well, I guess that was not an optimal play ^^  I'd like to be able to claim that i needed stress testing data on mid-game weapons performance, but really, there's just something in my head that clicks into crazy mode when those stumpy little fungus munchers are out there SIEGEing

Re: "brutes", Yeah, Uruk & Ronin can 1H wield some pretty big weapons, but I suppose Meph was picturing something even bigger like the size of an Olag-hai or Cave-troll type caste?   I was hoping that if we do that, it would be a separate species rather than caste but the implementation hasn't worked out yet.  Only in an old version we had poor sad emo Potash-Maker-Minotaur who had to be physically locked into the battlefield else she'd hide in the corner

[gwathlobal]

Is it possible to change the race of a unit through a syndrome?
Like boar -> giant boar, only with orcs (btw, never used those ones).
If yes, it could add a whole new perspective to orcs as compared to dwarves. Genetic engineering! Breeding programs!
Ps. Btw, I remember Meph wrote in the manual that an upgraded golem will be flashing for a month after an upgrade. Mayby this mechanics could be used for dreamwalker's learning spells, so there is no need to scrap the old system.

[Meph]

No, I was thinking of your Uruks then, not giant troll-like somethings... Giant troll-like somethings you should be able to buy/create, not have a random orc-mother give birth to.

Try adding prone-to-rage to your transformed minotaurs, then they will fight. Potashmaker or not.

[smakemupagus]

Gearing up towards a new candidate-stable version hopefully this weekend.  Got through the heavy lifting but still building graphics to design and presumably bugs to squash.  Posting this now to give some background info as I will change the poll soon.

There are Four new late game buildings to go along with the Magma Source and Ancient Foundry: 

* Warriors Mead Hall - combine 2 weapons, plus an offering of gold and skulls, to build one of 8 powerful weapons loadout.  (like dual katana for blademasters, or pistol & scimitar for buccaneers)
* Treesinger's Pagoda - unlocked by raiding the elves, craft the most powerful bows and valuable plants / wood work
* Heavy Weapons Lab - unlocked by raiding the humans: cannons, cannonballs and ballista arrows. (<- more ideas welcome too )
* Arcane Forge - unlock by raid drow;  newly buffed Wraithblade and Ivywhip dreamwalker weapons move here (<- more ideas welcome too )

Some combos of 2 or more of the unlockable late game buildings work particularly well together, e.g. (1) Ancient foundry & Mead hall =  craft your elite warrior society gear from Orichalcum.  (2) Or Magma Source & Heavy weapons lab = grenade launcher.

Blueprints are now "rare drops" from raiding but there's more good stuff in the loot tables including consumable Tool Kits that let you make a limited supply of very good mid-game stuff like enchanted arrows or runerobes.

Ten other new buildings:

Caravanserai -- sell bulk "trash" like excess food for gold and silver coin; pay for dues at the Mead Hall, melt down the coins for paving stones, or even maybe buy stuff.  Your pirates can help you acquire 1 merchant volunteer to open each of the 4 different caravan stalls.

A lot of convenience / flavor type stuff moved out of "Dwarven" style buildings into the Goblin Ghetto and Kobold Ghetto.  You will have to acquire* these useful little migrants before you can build.

Any brainstorms on the above or other ideas welcome.

* Not literally adding Goblins to your civ, it's a tool item that represents a group of Goblins.

[gwathlobal]

Caravanserai -- sell bulk "trash" like excess food for gold and silver coin; pay for dues at the Mead Hall, melt down the coins for paving stones, or even maybe buy stuff.

Yeah! 

You will have to acquire these useful little migrants before you can build.

How???

As for orichalcum, deep bronze and ancient foundry. I did extensive testing in the arena (with the old version), and orichalcum is inferior to deep bronze in all ways. 8 fights of 5x5 with both sides wielding scimitars. In all cases deep bronze side won as orichalcum was constantly deflected. And as they both come through the same building, and by the time you get this building you will have enough resources to produce any of them, there is no point to choose orichalcum except for a runerobe (which could not be acquired by any other means).
Maybe, each metal should have its own building (with orichalcum building having a higher drop rate).

Btw, maybe anti-greenskin poison should be replaced (if it is not already) with something like cadaverine or ptomain made from meat.

[smakemupagus]

You will have to acquire these useful little migrants before you can build.

How???

Brought back to the drydock in a sack of course merchants are common loot from "Raid the merchant tradeships," while goblins are picked up with 80% probability by a new, cheaper, mission "Round up some goblins".  Open to other ideas, as is now the drydock is bottleneck for everything.

As for orichalcum, deep bronze and ancient foundry. I did extensive testing in the arena (with the old version), and orichalcum is inferior to deep bronze in all ways. 8 fights of 5x5 with both sides wielding scimitars. In all cases deep bronze side won as orichalcum was constantly deflected.

Hmm.  It was meant to be that DB is great for armor and hammers (although it is about twice heavier, so it slows you down more) and good for swords; while Orc. would be great for swords and good for armor.  But this is a pretty subtle distinction, and I might have over-valued the fact that Orcichalcum has a higher MAX_EDGE.

Were you using [Orc.scimitar and Orc. armor] vs. [DB scimitar and DB armor]?  it could be that DB is just straight up better; or it could be that Armor trumps weapons in a close fight.

Not putting you personally on the hook for this but other interesting scenarios would be:
(Orc. scimitar and Steel armor) vs. (DB scimitar and Steel armor). 
(Steel scimitar and Orc. armor) vs. (Steel scimitar and DB. armor).
(Steel warhammer and Orc. armor) vs. (Steel warhammer and DB. armor).
(some measure of speed in full set of armor of either kind). 

I'm certainly not against splitting the foundry in two if that turns out to be the right thing, but I will think/test on it more first.   Even If DB was conclusively a better material for all forged weapons and heavy armor, Orichalcum is still (1) much lighter -- good for archers (1a) light plus superior impact modulus = best way for heavy troops to layer on extra protection vs blunt weapons (2) exclusive source for crafting greatbow, superior battleaxe, druidic weapons and runerobes (3) easier for orcs to mass manufacture; DB requires mithril

While the deep-bronze exclusive clockwork crossbow is indeed a killing machine, but, crossbow.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[INORGANIC:ORICHALCUM_ORC] Excellent impact modulus and superior edge; otherwise like steel
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:orichalcum]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten orichalcum]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling orichalcum]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:3:4:0]   [BUILD_COLOR:3:4:0]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:40] 24
   [SPEC_HEAT:500]
   [MELTING_POINT:12718]
   [BOILING_POINT:14968]
   [ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR][ITEMS_ANVIL]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:10500] 7850
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:9800] 6980
   [MOLAR_MASS:55845]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:3000000]  1.5M
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:4200000] 2.5M
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940] 940
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:1505000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:2520000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:940] 160
   [TENSILE_YIELD:430000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:720000]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:200] 200
   [TORSION_YIELD:430000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:720000]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:200]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:430000]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:720000]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:200]
   [BENDING_YIELD:430000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:720000]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:215]
   [MAX_EDGE:20000] steel = 10k, patternmith = 20 
   [ITEMS_HARD]
   [ITEMS_METAL]
   [ITEMS_BARRED]
   [ITEMS_SCALED]


[INORGANIC:DEEPBRONZE] Holds a great edge and shear modulus as good as pattern mithril; otherwise like wolfram
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:METAL_TEMPLATE]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:ALL_SOLID:deep bronze]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:LIQUID:molten deep bronze]
   [STATE_NAME_ADJ:GAS:boiling deep bronze]
   [DISPLAY_COLOR:6:4:0]   [BUILD_COLOR:6:4:0]
   [MATERIAL_VALUE:40]
   [MELTING_POINT:16159] see above
   [BOILING_POINT:19999]
   [ITEMS_WEAPON][ITEMS_WEAPON_RANGED][ITEMS_AMMO][ITEMS_DIGGER][ITEMS_ARMOR]
   [SOLID_DENSITY:19228]
   [LIQUID_DENSITY:19000]
   [MOLAR_MASS:174515]
   [IMPACT_YIELD:2500000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:2500000]
   [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1705]
   [COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:2500000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:2500000]
   [COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1705]
   [TENSILE_YIELD:1510000]
   [TENSILE_FRACTURE:1510000]
   [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:367]
   [TORSION_YIELD:1510000]
   [TORSION_FRACTURE:1510000]
   [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:367]
   [SHEAR_YIELD:630000]
   [SHEAR_FRACTURE:920000]
   [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:338]
   [BENDING_YIELD:1510000]
   [BENDING_FRACTURE:1510000]
   [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:367]
   [MAX_EDGE:14000]
   [ITEMS_HARD]
   [ITEMS_METAL]
   [ITEMS_BARRED]
   [ITEMS_SCALED]
[REACTION_CLASS:BRONZE_COATING]

Btw, maybe anti-greenskin poison should be replaced (if it is not already) with something like cadaverine or ptomain made from meat.

Yeah, anti-greenskin was removed but not yet replaced.  That's a good suggestion

[gwathlobal]

Brought back to the drydock in a sack of course

Heh, for the moment I just thought... Nevermind 

Ok, so you got me there.
MWDF 2d + Orc Fortress 0.22a

8 fights, 5x5 uruks, all relevant weapon and armor skills - grand master (striker, biter, wrestling and such are not).
Orcs wearing a helm, mail shirt, greaves, 2 gauntlets, 2 boots, kite shield.

1) DB armor + DB scimitar vs. Orc. armor + Orc. scimitar
DB side won in all cases, losing only one orc (out of 40).

2) Steel armor + DB scimitar vs. Steel armor + Orc. scimitar
DB side won in all cases, losing 3 orcs.

3) DB armor + Steel scimitar vs. Orc. armor + Steel scimitar
Whoa, that was a long and unexpected one!
Orc. side won in all cases, losing two orcs. Judging from the logs it seems that steel was more likely to penetrate DB and cause bruising and pain which led to ultimate defeat.

4) DB armor + Steel warhammer vs. Orc. armor + Steel warhammer
At last, some diversity.
Orc side won with 5:3, 18 vs 12 remaining.

And just for the sake of completeness, because previous results arouse some suspicions.

5) DB armor + DB scimitar vs. Steel armor + Steel scimitar
DB side won in all cases, losing 1 orc.

6) Orc. armor + Orc. scimitar vs. Steel armor + Steel scimitar
Orc. side won with 6:2, 30 vs 9 remaining.

So, interpret the results as you see fit 

[leafar]

with the new MW update i decided to take a look into ork fortress: great work!
i do have some questions though:

is it intended that you can only cash in booze that is in waterskins/flasks?
cause FreelancersGuild doesnt seem to accept my barrels; if it is, could this be changed, as you cant really order booze to be filled into waterskins/.. ?(maybe lower gain in return)

from the raws i take it needs 4 of each minotaur fig., bloodsteel bars and chains to make a chaos mojo, i do have have these, yet the order is shown as not available - do i miss sth?
(i have: 8 minotaur figs, 11 bloodsteel bars, 5 rusty iron chains)

burning trees for charcoal returns quite few seeds, do bigger stacks return more seeds? if not i wont be able to help the elves reforest the desert
(did you know: elven corpses are a great fertilizer)

[Meph]

Bigger stacks return more seeds, yes.

Brought back to the drydock in a sack of course  merchants are common loot from "Raid the merchant tradeships," while goblins are picked up with 80% probability by a new, cheaper, mission "Round up some goblins".  Open to other ideas, as is now the drydock is bottleneck for everything.

You have my interest. Actual, working goblin creatures ? Or tools/toys ? ^^

[smakemupagus]

@gwathlobal

Awesome, thank you.  Hmm, I choose to interpret as decent balance, and actually pretty close to working as intended.  DB is boss but orichalcum is both much lighter & better against non-pentrating and blunt attacks.  For what it's worth, lesser orcs might have more trouble lugging the heavy armor around (uruks are strong and Grandmasters only feel 1/16 of armor weight, at least, this was true once upon a time.)  Thanks again.

@leafar

Glad you're enjoying it and Thanks for reports!  I don't see why either one of those aren't working for you, both are noted and I'll take a look in my next test fort.  In the meantime, there is an issue not specific to Orc Fortress that sometimes custom reactions don't look available but the Manager can make them work anyway, so if you get a chance try the manager.

Yes, bigger stacks return more seeds, Orcs do have more trouble than Dwarves with sustainable tree farms but it is possible as you skill up your growers.  Otherwise slash n' burn

@Meph,

No, it's a tool called "Box of Goblin Migrants."  I promise you'll be the first to know if I make a working creature generator  

I feel a little bad that you guys were disappointed about the goblins!  I'll have to start being more literal   WARNING:  Playing Orc fortress will not literally transform you into a pirate.  It is not advised to use unpasteurized blood in leatherworking products in real life.  Please do not actually fire live hand grenades from a cannon.

[Meph]

Please do not actually fire live hand grenades from a cannon.

I did that, and I'm still alive Pirating abd blood-tanning would be new to me though.

I am not dissappointed, I was just wondering if your create creatures, without knowing that they will be "friendly" instead of civ-members. Could have saved you the trouble. But since you dont, no worries. And why are they in a box? Shouldnt a cage make more sense ? ^^ Or a wagon, since they are not prisoners, but migrants... "Kobold caravan wagon", you need 3 to build a kobold bazaar, something like that.