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[Neonivek]

I wasn't saying they were related, I was just saying they're similar.  They're both serious problems that run deep enough that a lot of the admittedly superior systems in other countries couldn't just be dropped in.

Simply speaking jails cannot be saved. They are going to suck in the US for years and years to come simply because the mindset on how jails SHOULD be run are contradictory to how they should be run.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

As for the justice system... your list is entirely unrealistic because of ONE major thing. "Punishment". A lot of people fully believe that jail is supposed to be a terrible terrible punishment. The idea of making jail better for inmates or even helping them while they are inside it is ENTIRELY contradictory to why they are there.

People can be convinced and times can change. Faster than you might think.

And if not, there's always the Supreme Court.

[Neonivek]

As for the justice system... your list is entirely unrealistic because of ONE major thing. "Punishment". A lot of people fully believe that jail is supposed to be a terrible terrible punishment. The idea of making jail better for inmates or even helping them while they are inside it is ENTIRELY contradictory to why they are there.

People can be convinced and times can change. Faster than you might think.

It won't happen. People are too easily outraged and the idea that what happens in prisons is part of the punishment, and heck that they are allowed ANY luxury/education is a bad thing, is engrained so deep into the subconscious of America it might as well be carved in immutable stone.

Just ask someone if they believe the Gunman should be raped in prison, for example, and see how many of them will say yes... even years afterwords.

Extreme? Yes but it is what people imagine when they imagine prison.

Even Canada has been slowly creeping into adding a death sentence.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I disagree. Standards of US justice and incarceration have changed immensely over the years. Back in the 40's we executed several thousand people every year. Last year it was 43.

Change doesn't happen overnight unless the Supreme Court writes radically liberal opinions, in which case it does, but change happens regardless.

And people's knee-jerk bloodlust towards criminals isn't hard to argue down because it is an emotional reaction rather than a rational one. I've proved my point to people who think that prisoners should suffer forever before, and it is an easy enough task because their side of the argument is quite simply inferior.

I think you are also underestimating the number of people who believe in rehabilitation.

[Neonivek]

I think you are also underestimating the number of people who believe in rehabilitation

If the polls are anything like they are here... in the land that SHOULD believe in Rehabilitation over all else...

40% with the number decreasing as time goes on.

"I've proved my point to people who think that prisoners should suffer forever before, and it is an easy enough task because their side of the argument is quite simply inferior"

It isn't the strength of the arguement that is important. You cannot argue it away.

It is about whether or not people believe that what happens in a jail should be part of the punishment.

[Detonate]

I disagree. Standards of US justice and incarceration have changed immensely over the years. Back in the 40's we executed several thousand people every year. Last year it was 43.

Change doesn't happen overnight unless the Supreme Court writes radically liberal opinions, in which case it does, but change happens regardless.

And people's knee-jerk bloodlust towards criminals isn't hard to argue down because it is an emotional reaction rather than a rational one. I've proved my point to people who think that prisoners should suffer forever before, and it is an easy enough task because their side of the argument is quite simply inferior.

I think you are also underestimating the number of people who believe in rehabilitation.

Prisons are still horrible pieces of shit run by insane assholes. In Iowa, for example, Afro-American kids are arrested 6 times more than white kids. Caucasian arrests have decreased, while Afro-American arrests have increased about 60%. The government said "both offending characteristics and racial bias appear to be contributing factors to African American overrepresentation in secure detention and in the juvenile justice system". Assault increased 49% and disorderly conduct increased 213%

e: It should be noted that the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, at 730 inmates per 100000 people. China has 121 prisoners per 100000 people. Our total prison population is 2,266,832, as of January 2011.

[Neonivek]

Prisons are still horrible pieces of shit run by insane assholes

Exactly the way people secretly want it. You just have to ask the right questions.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Prisons are still horrible pieces of shit run by insane assholes. In Iowa, for example, Afro-American kids are arrested 6 times more than white kids. Caucasian arrests have decreased, while Afro-American arrests have increased about 60%. The government said "both offending characteristics and racial bias appear to be contributing factors to African American overrepresentation in secure detention and in the juvenile justice system". Assault increased 49% and disorderly conduct increased 213%

I know that. That's why I advocate all the reforms that I do, foremost re-nationalizing the prisons to put them in more objective hands.

It isn't the strength of the arguement that is important. You cannot argue it away.

It is about whether or not people believe that what happens in a jail should be part of the punishment.

And you can change what people believe by arguing with them. They might not admit to your face that they've accepted your opinions over their own, but it does happen. Hence why people change their mind on political subjects. The strength of the argument is very important. It's easy to crush bad arguments over and over again (looking at you, Creationism) until the people holding them begin to doubt. That doubt is all you need to change someone's mind. It will grow and overtake them until they have no choice but to accept your argument.

Trust me, I used to be on the far-right, I know about opinion change.

[Lord Inquisitor]

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/working-assault-rifle-made-3-d-printer
http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/07/26/the-worlds-first-3d-printed-gun-is-a-terrifying-thing/
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/133514-the-worlds-first-3d-printed-gun
Wait until the Antigun lot find about this they will be calling to ban 3d printers next.

OK the guy is a gunsmith and only made the reciever and the assault rifle plans he was using were flawed but still is by right a move in the right direction. Making usable stuff is the right uisead rather than a dohicky, Copyrighters and goverment "you too stupid to have this tech" people will try to eventually outlaw or restrict the use of these thing. The universal assembler is the only thing they really have to worry about and that is not currently economically viable to build.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm not very worried about that. People have been making working garage guns for decades, this is just another tool. Plus, the guy who printed it is clearly an expert at his craft, average joe could have a harder time successfully printing a working gun.

[Detonate]

3-D printers are far too useful to be banned for one guy making two weapons. I bet 4/5ths of the designs will blow up in the faces of the makers. It's about as stupid as making your own gun if you don't know how. Most people wouldn't know how to make a functional, working gun with a 3-D printer. Most people don't even know what that is.

[kaijyuu]

Um, blueprints means they wouldn't have to know how. They just have to double check they've got the right materials, plug in the blueprint they downloaded from the internet, and boom: gun.


Ammunition is a whole 'nother story, though. You can't print nitroglycerin (or whatever powers ammunition these days).

[Scelly9]

Um, blueprints means they wouldn't have to know how. They just have to double check they've got the right materials, plug in the blueprint they downloaded from the internet, and boom: gun.

Hell, The Pirate Bay already has a section on their site for 3d blueprints.

[Knight of Fools]

Next stop: Printing laser guns. Who needs ammo, anyways?

[Scelly9]

but yeah, the ammunition would be hard to make, and would require some personal assembly.

But, you can buy the supplies and tools for assembling ammo online for cheap.