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Author Topic: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)  (Read 4045 times)

Khalvin

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Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« on: July 20, 2012, 02:11:55 am »
I want words.

Thus I'm picking up the banner for a massively EXTENDED dictionary. An effort continued from HERE!
For a corrected Dictionary go HERE.

If you're interested take a word and fill in it's tags.
Please claim large blocks before you dig in. It would stink to have two people to copy work already being published

NO Rear Adverbs or Adjectives
NO Front Plural Nouns

'Mountainshomes of Cat' sounds ridiculous.
'Mountainhomes of Cats' is beautiful.

If you find a word that could be added, PLEASE double check it against the vanilla language_words file. HINT: Use CTRL-F in Notepad++

DwarfWiki page for Lang_Tokens HERE .

This is what we have thus far. Updated with new submissions HERE.

LANGUAGE TAG Tutorial
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Think this is all? Oh no. My hunger for literacy is voracious.
Once work on the Land_Word file is complete Phase Deuce will begin. EXPANDED SYMBOL TAGS!!!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:58:36 pm by Khalvin »
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Vattic

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 08:50:22 am »
Are you still using the Basic English Dictionary as a guide? It looks like it to me so here's a link to it:

Qualities (Adjectives)
General Things (Nouns)
Picturable Words (Nouns)
All above in one list

This is a project that interests me. Perhaps I should dedicate some time.

Are there plans to translate these words into the different languages too?
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Khalvin

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 01:24:14 pm »
Indeed. DFLang  will help out with translation.

I'll look through those links to see what can be added. Thx for theese


The bigger project will be tagging the Symbols.
With this many new words the game will sorely need an expanded symbol file.

Something else that will be incredibly helpful. If we could go through the words in the file now and check grammar.Maybe  post the correction here and I'll fix it.

This list comes from an earlier project. I'm finding a couple prepositions and even some related tenses that create duplicate entries.
Like Have and Had...

I'm zippng through I at the moment So I'll claim I through L.

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Vattic

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 01:56:52 pm »
Quote from: Khalvin on July 20, 2012, 01:24:14 pm
I'll look through those links to see what can be added. Thx for theese
No need. All the suitable words from those lists are already in your document it seems. I hadn't noticed there were ones still to fill in; I had thought only complete words were in the doc.

I'll claim M through N for the moment. Might take me a while to get used to the language raws so don't hold your breath.

Won't stopping Rear Adverbs, Adjectives, and Singular Nouns; and Front Plural Nouns mess up how surnames work? Are there plans to allow any that are OK sounding?

Are you going to include any of the fixes from Language Unlocked?

Edit: Some of these are proving trickier than I expected; You'll have to go over what I've done and check the notes I'm making.

How does the ADJ_DIST token work?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:53:11 pm by Vattic »
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Khalvin

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 02:57:56 pm »
Urist Mountainsblack or Urst Beaksdogs is what we are preventing.

If it sounds right, then it's cool. Urist Beakdogs is okay-ish. Better then other possibilities. I just want to make clear that it's still funky.
Beakdog would be preferred. The last rule was a mistake on my part. *fixed*

The [OF_NOUN_X] tag is the the strange case. Sometimes the Plural sounds right, other times the Singular. Sometimes both.
See..
Of Cat -=- of Cats
of Intrigue -=- of Intrigues
of Diamond -=- of Diamonds

More bizarre is when words just come across clunky in certain positions. That has to be played out by ear.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:00:33 pm by Khalvin »
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Vattic

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 05:24:19 pm »
Right well I've made my first pass over M - N. I've littered it with notes in places where I'm not sure what's best. I'd be appreciated If someone else could look over it for any mistakes I might have missed. It's not ready for adding to the list yet.

Spoiler: M - N (click to show/hide)

There are some issues I've raised in the notes that I'll mention again here:
  • So far I've left all ADJ_DIST at 2 because I'd imagine we'll need to experiment to see what looks best here.
  • How are we dealing with terms that only relate to specific real world religions? (like mass).
  • How do we deal with verbs or nouns that haven't certain tenses?
  • Can we have adverbs?
  • What to do with words with multiple meanings? The dwarven spelling would be different likely.
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Khalvin

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 08:24:42 pm »

So far I've left all ADJ_DIST at 2 because I'd imagine we'll need to experiment to see what looks best here.
Agreed. I'm not sure this is even relevant in-game as of now. Past research shows the count goes up to five
THat's five places for Adjectives.... The red delicious fallen halved spicy apple.
Not sure where that comes up in play. In the RAWs two is certainly the average.

How are we dealing with terms that only relate to specific real world religions? (like mass).
There are many already in the RAW file. Fill them out and we can deal with any problems from duplication of definitions as we find them.

How do we deal with verbs or nouns that haven't certain tenses?
I'm not sure the RAWs have an example. Repeat the Prsent and Past.
[VERB:may:maybe:might:might:maybe:] if through testing it's found to be a problem we can remove the words and test them not being there.

Can we have adverbs?
I think they are made with the [PREFIX:] tags

What to do with words with multiple meanings? The dwarven spelling would be different likely.
Separate each defination out if it makes sense to do so. The [WORD:] tag is just a call flagto that specific deffinition.
We can safely have [WORD:BAT_Animal] and [WORD:BAT_SPORT]

Dwarves and Elve may not use the same word for flying mammals and sporting clubs.
Keep and Harbor were hard cases I found. But to keep or to harbor easily translate back to the noun forms.
These a kept as one word definition
but I could have broke them up as.
[WORD:HARBOR] -=- [WORD:TO_HARBOR]
[WORD:KEEP] -=- [WORD:TO_KEEP]

Finally
Thanks for the notes. Words that are duplicates of any other entry will need to be removed.
Second I trust your judgement on tags in the end. If you think it sounds right. That is enough for me.
The rules are there to make people aware of what problems exist. English is too complicated to try and hold fast to a single standard.
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 08:53:46 pm »
You know, if you guys (and any others that chip in) finish this. We could forward it to The Great Toad to include in future releases?
Like the color and density mod, it was intergrated into newest releases.

Just a suggestion. Keep on truckin.
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Bohandas

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 11:41:23 pm »
That language tag tutorial is great
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Igfig

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2012, 12:15:44 pm »
I'd like very much to help out with this (especially the next phase with the symbol tags), although I can't at this specific moment. I will return at the first opportunity.

About ADJ_DIST: This page might be useful.

Also, I think "of intrigues" actually works fine. "Intrigue" can be a concrete noun too; it's a synonym for "scheme". Maybe we should have somebody do a quick check over each section after it's completed, to spot any errors?

Oh, and by the way. Lately I've been thinking about going back to DFLang for further development. Are there any features you'd like to see added that could help with this project?
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Vattic

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 12:24:45 pm »
Right so I went back through M - N this morning to double check and clean out some things.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ended up cutting a lot of the notes, adding a couple of words, and generally tweaking things. There are a few words I've got in there with no usage rules. Would like some input on them:
Code: ("no") [Select]
[WORD:NO]
[NOUN:no:noes]
- really don't know
[ADJ:no] - as in "there is no way"
[ADJ_DIST:2]
- really don't know
- adverb?
Code: ("now") [Select]
[WORD:NOW]
[NOUN:now:nows]
- not sure
[ADJ:now] - "the now United States of America"
[ADJ_DIST:2]
- adverb?
Code: [Select]
[WORD:MORE]
[NOUN:more:more]
- none of these really sound right "of more" "the more" etc
[ADJ:more]
[ADJ_DIST:2]
[FRONT_COMPOUND_ADJ]
[REAR_COMPOUND_ADJ]
[THE_COMPOUND_ADJ]
- could be an adverb
Code: [Select]
WORD:NOT] - adverb and logic gate
A lot of the usage stuff I've left pretty flexible. Compound nouns that seem strange in fort names can make more sense in surnames and similar. A lot sound strange except alongside certain words. I guess things can be tweaked if people find anything strange in game. I don't think most adverbs would count as prefixes so I've left those for now. I can see Toady updating this quite significantly in the future.

Quote from: Igfig on July 21, 2012, 12:15:44 pm
About ADJ_DIST: This page might be useful.
I'll have to go over what I've done with that in mind. Cheers for the link.

Edit: Updated all the ADJ_DIST. The link Igfig gave was useful but most of the adjectives didn't really fit so well. Most ended up at 5 (the highest) which I based on examples of the adjective in use placing them right next to the noun.

For anyone else trying to figure it out the general rule of thumb is that the more specific or objective the adjective is the closer it goes to the noun.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 12:57:31 pm by Vattic »
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Hugo_The_Dwarf

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 12:28:28 pm »
Spoiler: unrelated (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 05:02:06 pm by Hugo_The_Dwarf »
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Igfig

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 02:38:26 pm »
That doesn't really have anything to do with this specific project, Hugo. If you have suggestions like that, it'd be better to put them in the DFLang thread so as not to hijack this one. (That said, it wouldn't make much sense for DFLang to translate between existing languages, because you'd have to give it all the translations yourself anyway.)

Vattic, I'd make the noun form of NO be "nothing" (or use NOTHING as the main word), and replace the adjective with a prefix, so we can get "Urist Nofinger" but not "Urist the No Finger".

Make MORE a prefix too, to avoid "Urist the More Clasp".

NOW and NOT don't really work anywhere, so I'd lose them entirely.

Code: [Select]
[WORD:NOTHING]
[NOUN:nothing:]
[THE_COMPOUND_NOUN_SING]
[OF_NOUN_SING]
[REAR_COMPOUND_NOUN_SING]
[PREFIX:no]
  [FRONT_COMPOUND_PREFIX]

[WORD:MORE]
[PREFIX:more]
[FRONT_COMPOUND_PREFIX]
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Vattic

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2012, 06:27:51 pm »
I've tested leaving the different tenses blank for verbs and nouns. They still end up on the lists when naming things as blank spaces and are selectable. In the names themselves they only show up in the dwarven translation. I also tried adding NONE like with reactions but then you get the word NONE in the lists. This doesn't really matter for nouns as we have more control there but for verbs we'll have to accept improper usage.

Igfig: Ah thank you for the suggestions. I've made the changes. Do you see any other glaring mistakes with what I've submitted? Language isn't my strongest suit so I likely missed something.

Nothing does have a plural in nothings but I left it out, a fortress called SweetNothings might be funny, though.

Spoiler:  M - N pretty much complete (click to show/hide)
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Khalvin

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Re: Dictionapocalypse (400+ Words!)
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 02:11:03 am »
I saved M-N to the main file. almost there!

@Igfig. More functionality with Roots and Symbols. Maybe to be able to generate prefix and suffix to a specif symbol group?

I never played around with the Language extender. So I'm not sure how that will work.

And is Dwarven/other languages randomly defined by vanilla? or was there a real effort to build those languages?
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