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Author Topic: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]  (Read 687772 times)

scriver

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6885 on: January 16, 2021, 12:46:51 pm »

my pirate punk band is called "Shiver me Liver"
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Caz

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6886 on: January 17, 2021, 06:13:15 am »

You ever get the feeling that in holding onto the world too tightly you're going to squash it out of shape?
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Naturegirl1999

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6887 on: January 17, 2021, 06:17:46 am »

Our leaders are already doing that
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King Zultan

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6888 on: January 17, 2021, 06:18:05 am »

You ever get the feeling that in holding onto the world too tightly you're going to squash it out of shape?
I'm sure if you squish it in other places you can even it back out eventually.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6889 on: January 18, 2021, 08:34:36 am »

What happens if you just compile the Linux kernel (plus the absolute bare minimum to get it to boot, but no tools) onto a system? Can it do anything at all? What commands are even available, if any?
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Arx

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6890 on: January 18, 2021, 10:05:54 am »

What happens if you just compile the Linux kernel (plus the absolute bare minimum to get it to boot, but no tools) onto a system? Can it do anything at all? What commands are even available, if any?

The kernel of an operating system doesn't really do anything by itself; it's just an interface for hardware-software communication. There are no commands, unless you're a program interfacing at a system level. It's sort of like asking "what happens if you put a desk in a room"? Well, there's a desk in the room. You can put things on the desk, or I suppose you can sit on it, but the desk by itself isn't actually very interesting.

Edit:

But the closest is maybe Minimal Linux: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mll

All you get is a shell with some limited tools, I don't know exactly which. But not a lot! Probably the place to go if you want to try compiling a kernel and seeing what happens, though, consensus seems to be it's great for tinkering with.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 10:12:06 am by Arx »
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6891 on: January 20, 2021, 06:36:05 am »

Is there any way to embed .mp4 (or other video formats) files into Bay12? .gif is an inefficient format (.gif only compresses within frames, while modern video codecs compress between frames), and it typically only goes up to 256 colors. I don't need playback controls; I'm intending it to be a looping gif-like image.
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wierd

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6892 on: January 20, 2021, 06:49:27 am »

What happens if you just compile the Linux kernel (plus the absolute bare minimum to get it to boot, but no tools) onto a system? Can it do anything at all? What commands are even available, if any?

The kernel of an operating system doesn't really do anything by itself; it's just an interface for hardware-software communication. There are no commands, unless you're a program interfacing at a system level. It's sort of like asking "what happens if you put a desk in a room"? Well, there's a desk in the room. You can put things on the desk, or I suppose you can sit on it, but the desk by itself isn't actually very interesting.

Edit:

But the closest is maybe Minimal Linux: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mll

All you get is a shell with some limited tools, I don't know exactly which. But not a lot! Probably the place to go if you want to try compiling a kernel and seeing what happens, though, consensus seems to be it's great for tinkering with.

I get where you are coming from, but that is not explicitly accurate..

an operating system kernel most certainly *IS* the thing brokering all hardware accesses.  That is one of its primary functions; but in a modern kernel, it has much more important functions:

1) Manage memory allocations and garbage collection
2) Protect important processes that interact with hardware resources, such that user mode software cannot meddle with them in dangerous ways, by abstracting *ALL* access requests.
3) Protect processes from each other, so that data does not get stolen clandestinely (such as from malware), does not execute at the wrong privilege level (eg, limited user cannot change system settings or modify other user's data), or does not inadvertantly cause problems (memory overflow outside of allocation, into next process's memory)
4) Provide standardized interfaces that user mode application developers can make use of.  (Very important change from say, the 80s and 90s, when such abstraction was not performed, and lots of competing "defacto" standards were out there-- all different.)

While none of those things are "WOW! SO COOL!!", there most certainly is a lot more going on in there than an inactive, passive object like a desk. 

It's a bit more like having a home automation system, that controls the roombas in your house.  Not glamorous, but it does a lot more decision making than you would expect.


As for "Compile the linux kernel into $foo, would it be able to do cool stuff?" that is a nebulous question.  The naked kernel just does the above things.  It schedules tasks, protects and manages memory, enforces user security, and manages all connected hardware resources.

Without something ASKING it to do things though, it does indeed kinda just "sit there". 

It gets nebulous though, because you can insert things INTO the kernel, as built-in modules.  Those things can indeed do fully autonomous activities right in the kernel land.

As a rule of thumb, you should NOT put a system daemon inside a kernel module, unless it is managing some vital bit of hardware. EG, DO NOT put the TCP/IP stack inside a kernel module.  It is not sensible, nor safe. However, it is entirely possible to say-- Shoehorn an entire small game server into the TCP stack, as a loadable module, and then technically it would be part of the running kernel.  This is not advised. It is not normal. You should not do it, even though technically you totally can. (You can also put your genitals into an edison light socket, but it is likewise, very much not advised.)

I really mention this for things like say--- A consumer programmable robot kit. 

Suppose you have a robot, into which you have incorporated some autonomous routines, so that the user does not have to explicitly call them.  Such as say, "Fall avoidance" in a bipedal robot.  There could be value in having this kind of very low latency code run immediate, in kernel process space, and have user program logic that controls the robot live in userspace.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 06:58:41 am by wierd »
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Frumple

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6893 on: January 20, 2021, 08:00:17 am »

Is there any way to embed .mp4 (or other video formats) files into Bay12? .gif is an inefficient format (.gif only compresses within frames, while modern video codecs compress between frames), and it typically only goes up to 256 colors. I don't need playback controls; I'm intending it to be a looping gif-like image.
Pretty sure no (thankfully, that sounds like a bloody nightmare). Best bet would be hosting elsewhere and just using a link to that.
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Arx

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6894 on: January 20, 2021, 09:47:15 am »

I get where you are coming from, but that is not explicitly accurate..

The desk analogy isn't perfect, but it's an analogy. It's not meant to be perfect.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6895 on: January 21, 2021, 05:21:02 am »

For shits and giggles, I want to dump the entire contents of my RAM (all 16 gigs of it) into a file for later processing. Now, in Linux, it's really easy; I think the syntax should go:
Code: [Select]
sudo dd if=/dev/mem of=dump.img bs=4096(I'm not a Linux user myself. I waive any and all responsibility if you fuck up your system by running that command. I don't even know if you can mess with dev/mem like this).

How would I accomplish this dumb feat in Windows, though? I don't want to crash Windows to get a full memory dump, I just want to run something to screw with the contents of my memory, probably creating "music" and "pictures" that both look and sound like noise with occasional interruptions of semi-coherent images/music-like tones.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 05:22:42 am by methylatedspirit »
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wierd

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6896 on: January 21, 2021, 06:12:13 am »

Not easily doable, due to a variety of windows "features" implemented to make media companies happy.

(remember, leaking full decryption keys from the XING dvd player in-memory image in the 90s, is how we got the full inner workings of the DeCSS algo.  The media industry has not forgotten this, which is why we have things like protected media path, and co.)

about the only way to get a full-on memory dump is to initiate it as system level user.  Any other user, including administrator, will result in your being told to go sodomize yourself with a collapsible shock baton. (well, the system dialog equivalent anyway. "Not authorized", "not permitted", etc.)


Forcing a crashdump is really the only way to get it.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6897 on: January 21, 2021, 06:55:52 am »

It's easy enough to force Windows to BSOD. I'm sure programs exist solely to crash Windows.

How do you tell Windows to dump the entire contents of memory to disk, though? I vaguely remember some setting in... startup config or something, but I'd rather be told where that setting is instead of going on a wild goose chase trying to find this one damn setting.
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methylatedspirit

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Re: The small random questions thread [WAAAAAAAAAAluigi]
« Reply #6899 on: January 21, 2021, 07:38:22 am »

I crashed Windows, and it's now doing the full memory dump. I can't wait to see what kind of garbage is in my RAM.

Edit: Small scare; Bluetooth didn't work on the first restart, but restarting again fixed it.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 07:59:19 am by methylatedspirit »
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