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[inteuniso]

You should be free to do as you wish as long as you do not make others less free because of it.

[Wolfy]

I'll be honest.  I'm of the opinion Jesus does not want us to thump the Bible at others.

This. Other than politicized Christianity, the only real problem I have with the religion (or any really) is when people proselytize. It's rude, insensitive, pointless, and only really turns people against your position. Atheists do it to, and it irks me just as much, it's just much less frequent than with theists.

I just wish we could all let people believe what they want, unless it's actively causing harm. I think it's just that people do think [insert position here] is actively causing harm...

but to us, your believe DOSE our belief is due to that your going to hell, us not telling you is letting you go to hell, would you rather us not care?

You cant say "well you dont know that" no we dont, but its what we belive, and since we belive hell awaits to us, it DOSE cause harm

[Thecard]

but to us, your believe DOSE our belief is due to that your going to hell, us not telling you is letting you go to hell, would you rather us not care?
You cant say "well you dont know that" no we dont, but its what we belive, and since we belive hell awaits to us, it DOSE cause harm

Goes without saying, probably, but you are speaking for yourself here.

[Wolfy]

If your talking as if MY God is real then read the bible FULL dont say "well cant use that" then use two others to claim heap of contradictory randomness, you will not find one that cant be explained by
A. error of man
B. your reading of it

The parts that insist God exists could be explained by human error too, so you have yet to demonstrate to us why you find the Bible to be such reliable evidence for God and free will.

also here are some defnitions
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/omniscient

having very great or seemingly unlimited knowledge

another possibailty is he has inherent omniscience, whiche the bible suports as Jesuse, who says he dose not know the day the lord will come back, implys he "took" some knoldage away

please note it is STILL Omniscience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omniscient
(Yes i know its not a "relabalie resoruce but the soruces are, use them, safes us all far more time

There is a distinction between:
inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.

There is no conditional "everything that can be known." If there are unknowable things, then nothing is omniscient.

That is one definition, in one place, I've cited two that are just as reliable that say other wise
Even then, your still wrong because your assuming these unknowable things = knowledge, is it kndolage to know the meaning of life? not if its an abstract thing that dose not exist

The bible never says God has either or, but its impled in Christ words and how when he was a baby he did not know everything

How ever

Omnipotence (unlimited power) is sometimes understood to also imply the capacity to know everything that will be.
Nontheism often claims that the very concept of omniscience is inherently contradictory.
Whether omniscience, particularly regarding the choices that a human will make, is compatible with free will has been debated by theists and philosophers. The argument that divine foreknowledge is not compatible with free will is known as theological fatalism. Generally, if humans are truly free to choose between different alternatives, it is very difficult to understand how God could know what this choice will be.[3] Various responses have been proposed to this argument. One possible solution is that God could know every possible life one might live, but allows for free will according to laws set in place that cannot be contradicted. God would know all possible ways to live and all the outcomes, but a human being with free will would choose which specific life to actually live out, one decision at a time. God would allow for the ability to choose, and to not have full power over all in what was chosen by a human being each step of the way. God would be all-knowing in terms of infinite specific details of every possible life you could live.

So this agument has been had, and guys way smarter then us could not agree on it, who are we to claim we know?

There are two possible types, the bible dose not give which it is, but imply IMO that he can chose, as Christ did

You may say "nope that dont work" and that's fine, I don't have to prove it to you, I'm just telling you what I believe
We both could go back and forth "yeah huh" "nu huh" but the fact is, people have fought over this, guys way more quaffed then either of us, and if they cant do it, I see no way we can.

you may believe you are right, but that is not a fact, its a belief, just like mine


It's very hard to say what I belive on here just because it is, but adding my bad spelling makes it worse, so I have to rely on other soruces both for me and you guys

Goes without saying, probably, but you are speaking for yourself here.

How so? have you heard them? there is a reasson you hear "fire and damnation if you dont go"
"Christ loves you" is it evrey single one? no but it is the majority, one can go through the bible and see where
OUR GOD COMANDED us to tell you about him, we are required by him to do so

HOWEVER he also says if they dont want to hear it then dust off your sandals and leave and so I agree they should read that part more

[Thecard]

I could be misunderstanding what it is you are saying here.  I had to do a little bit of restructuring your sentences so they would make sense.  Still though, your pronouns are unclear.
If this is not what you intended to say let me know.

Goes without saying, probably, but you are speaking for yourself here.

How so?  Have you heard them? There is a reason you hear about "fire and damnation" if you don't go.
Is "Christ loves you" every single one? No, but it is the majority, and one can go through the bible and see where our God commanded us to tell you about him.  We are required by him to do so.

However, he also says if they don't want to hear it then dust off your sandals and leave and so I agree they should read that part more.

When I said you were speaking for yourself, I meant it idiomatically.  I'm saying your views do not necessarily represent mine, especially in respects to your "fire and brimstone" theology.

Telling others they are going to hell is a poor way to show God's love for them.  Especially since we have no way of knowing how God will judge them.

[Wolfy]

Telling others they are going to hell is a poor way to show God's love for them.  Especially since we have no way of knowing how God will judge them.

But its what God told us to do, and we believe we KNOW how God will as we believe God told us, we CANT know how he will abd by then its to late, all we can do is hope we are right
Christ, and all his followers did it, Christ talks abotu hell FAR more then heaven warning them that if they dont they will go to hell, for us and our bleifes its imply the truth

put it this way if a man belived that a bomb was going off in your house would you want them to tell you?

thats basscily what most that do it feel like

[Thecard]

Telling others they are going to hell is a poor way to show God's love for them.  Especially since we have no way of knowing how God will judge them.

But its what God told us to do, and we believe we know how God will as we believe God told us, we CANT know how he will and by then its to late, all we can do is hope we are right
Christ and all his followers did it, Christ talks about hell far more then heaven warning them that if they don't they will go to hell, for us and our beliefs imply the truth.

put it this way if a man believed that a bomb was going off in your house would you want them to tell you?

That's basically what most that do it feel like

Jesus told us not to judge others.  Wolfie, none can judge but The Lord.
And, funny enough, Jesus is God.  He was able to judge others because of that.

Make sure you have the log out of your own eye before trying to get specks out of the eyes of others.

[Wolfy]

We are not judging you, we tell you what Christ said

"All who believe in him have entarnl life"
"the only way to heave is through God's so Jesus christ"

we do not judge, we are not saying you go to hell becuse you did bad, we are saying you are going to hell becuse christ, who is God judge and said those who dont belive will

where is judgemnt? we are not better then you, we are tyring to help you

no judging

[MaximumZero]

The big difference between those two things, Wolfy, is that a bomb is tangible. It exists, and we know it exists because there is physical evidence for it. "Hell" has none. As an atheist, I have no reason to believe in any hells because they have no tangible, measurable, testable, repeatable proof. None. In fact, I have no reason at all to believe in any afterlife at all. Telling a non-believer that they're going to hell is a very empty threat.

[Wolfy]

The big difference between those two things, Wolfy, is that a bomb is tangible. It exists, and we know it exists because there is physical evidence for it. "Hell" has none. As an atheist, I have no reason to believe in any hells because they have no tangible, measurable, testable, repeatable proof. None. In fact, I have no reason at all to believe in any afterlife at all. Telling a non-believer that they're going to hell is a very empty threat.

So can a bomb blowing up, yes bomb exists, but you have no proof its in your building

there is none of that proof its there, else where? yes, there? no and so would you or would you not want someone who belives there is a bomb to at least tell you?

You can ignore it at least, but I'd want them to tell me.

What type of dick move is it to belive christ is the only way to be safed and then say "nope not going to help others"

THAT REGARDLESS of belive causes harm, may not be physaical (In our case we belive it is)

[MonkeyHead]

Apologies if I have interpreted wrong...

But the mad bomber can show me the bomb. There is no way of showing someone heaven (double meanings aside) in a manner that would stad up to logical scrutiny.

Active attepts at conversion probably cause more harm than good IIRC. This is what gives aethists a bad name as well as the faithful.

[Thecard]

Wolfie, there is more to Christianity than believing in Christ.  It's pretty fucking important though, I will give you that. 
But I think when God judges the hearts (in the figurative sense, not as in the organ) of men, He looks for goodness as well. 

But yes, Wolfie, it is judging someone to say they are going to Hell.  I show my faith through my actions, and in my love for others.
Not by thumping my bible.

And yes, there is no way to prove Heaven's existence.  But I have faith in God, and I believe Heaven exists.  I guess I can't really explain faith, but I can see it is there, and I suppose you can see it in me.

[Wolfy]

We believe there is a way to show you, we believe there is a point where if you give it a chance, you WILL see it.

It takes time to changed your world views, that goes for even me

We believe god proves him self every day, but many look at ti, as humans always do and either make excuses or pick something else for it

An example all of this theroys of physics? giving to science, and amny out right DENY in anyway possible God could of made those

that boy who by mod den medical terms should not be alive no idea how he lived? dumb sheer luck (another thing that cant be proven, but your still willing to belive in that)

Let me be the first to say, that yes, we Christina to sometimes take things to be form God and they are NOT
I admit that.

An example, people deny ed evolution, they would not accepted it, then they deny ed many other things, some "physical" others not (slavery being wrong)
but over time giving the chance they go to the other side

But yes, Wolfie, it is judging someone to say they are going to Hell.  I show my faith through my actions, and in my love for others.
Not by thumping my bible.

How is ti judging? its not, to judge would be for us to decide where they go, we do not, Christ did when he said if you did not believe in him and God you would not be saved, we did not judge them unworthy, we did not set a standard and said they failed, God him self said that

Is it judging to say I sin when I lie?

[fqllve]

but to us, your believe DOSE our belief is due to that your going to hell, us not telling you is letting you go to hell, would you rather us not care?

I would rather you not care what I believe, yes. I have the courtesy to not care what you believe so why can't you have the same? It's not for you to say whose beliefs are right since there is no evidence either way, just because you believe I'm going to hell doesn't mean you have to be so rude as to constantly inform me of it because you don't have proof either way.

Once you have proof, then you can start caring about my soul, but until then, remember that you don't actually know, so anything you say is both completely unprovable and unwarranted. And it isn't going to convince me anyway.

[Wolfy]

I would rather you not care what I believe, yes. I have the courtesy to not care what you believe so why can't you have the same? It's not for you to say whose beliefs are right since there is no evidence either way, just because you believe I'm going to hell doesn't mean you have to be so rude as to constantly inform me of it because you don't have proof either way.

Because to do so would be being a dick? it dont matter if we cant prove it, I cant prove my mom is going to get shot tommorw but if I believe its going to happen, me pesonoly better damn well do something about it.

Once you have proof, then you can start caring about my soul, but until then, remember that you don't actually know, so anything you say is both completely unprovable and unwarranted. And it isn't going to convince me anyway.

So you need proof? so why have theroys then on science? there is no proof, they are not proven

So I cant warn someone I think something bad is going to happen becuse I dont have proof?

It wont convince you (famous last words of an x atheist\christain) but I have to try, i could not live with my self if I knew I could of tried to help you and did not and then you ended up in hell
what type of person dose that make me?