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[Bdthemag]

Why would you try to debate people then, and convey complex topics to support your argument when you have a terrible grasp of the english language?

[fqllve]

Hey, doesn't stop people even when they have a terrible grasp on the topics they're trying to discuss.

[Thecard]

We act upon our wants. We cannot control our wants. Therefore we do not have free will.
We act upon our wants. SCIENCE! We still cannot control our wants. Therefore we do not have free will.
SCIENCE! We still act upon our wants. We cannot control our wants. Therefore we do not have free will.
We act upon our wants. We cannot control our wants. SCIENCE! Therefore we still do not have free will.
We act upon our wants. We cannot control our wants. Therefore we do not have free will. SCIENCE!
SCIENCE! We still act upon our wants. SCIENCE! We still cannot control our wants. SCIENCE! Therefore we still do not have free will. SCIENCE!

Huh.  I don't get it. 

[Grek]

Free Will is a poorly defined concept and a lot of self-contradictory baggage. A better term would be "volition" along with a theory of how volition arises within humans, ie. either via a soul or via some process in the brain.

[Wolfy]

He already went over this with everyone I thought? That English is his first language, but he is just terrible at it and refuses to try to get better. Pretty sure this conversation was had already at least.

Way to miss quote, my exact wording was i went through all of public school being taught how, to tried to get better for over TWO DECADES (longer then your 15 IIRC)
and this is where I am at
don't you EVER do that again or I will report you to the mods

I did not "refuse" i tried for two decades  to no avail, after two decades what more can I do?
I will not stand for someone actting like I never tried, i did LONGER then you HARDER then you
I've earned the right to say **** it, if it has not got better yet why belive it will with any more time?


Also guys this is free will

Free will is the ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Historically, the constraint of dominant concern in philosophy has been determinism, which holds that the future is determined completely by preceding events

We act upon our wants. We cannot control our wants. Therefore we do not have free will.
Nothing at all says free will means you can do what ever you want to at all, thats you adding something that is not there

a distinction between freedom of will and freedom of action, that is, separating freedom of choice from the freedom to enact it.

God only promises free will, you can choice, but not always act on things

dont mistake it for anything less or more

[MaximumZero]

Cript was on your side, Wolfy. He was just trying to explain that this conversation had been had before and doesn't need to be had again. No reason to get hostile. Take a breath, man.

[Wolfy]

He keeps saying "did not try"
"refuse to try" etc acting like because he did it means I can, he even mentions "having no respect for me" in multiple posts

He is NOT on my side, he is spreading lies and making look like I never tried
I've said it mutiple times, (most of them directed at him, its in my sig that I've tried, he STILL keeps saying it) what more can  I get him to stop saying lies?

[Thecard]

Is it horrible of me that I yelled out "that's what she said" like four different times in Wolfy's post back on the other page?

[MaximumZero]

Unfortunately, on the internet, there is no proof of trying without actual, visible growth. There's nothing there for us to judge except what we see, aside from taking your word for it, which some of us are reluctant to do for whatever reason. For some people, a statement of "I suck as this thing," is a statement of "Fuck it, I give up." Because there is no context or tone to go on (again, except your own word,) your sig is pretty much outright saying, "I am no longer attempting to better my spelling and grammar, so fuck it, and if you don't like it, fuck you." Most of us understand that certain subjects are difficult for some people, but being hostile about it is only going to widen the gap between you and those who are skeptical.

Please don't take things so personally. Please try to remember that we're just a bunch of semi-anonymous posters on a message board. I consider a lot of these people to be internet buddies, but they wouldn't know me from Joe on the street if we were to meet in real life, despite my logging nearly two and a half months on this particular corner of the internet. There really isn't any reason for you to take what any of us say so seriously that it upsets you. Just chill, bro.

[Wolfy]

So what am I sopoused to do when they do this? let them keep thinking I'm not trying, and let them say that so that others think it? and pretty soon no one will talk to me if they feel that way

I dont mind how they feel, I mind how they make others feel about me

And there IS reason, I've been told by that guy that my over two decades of work amounts to NOTHING
internet or no, that fucking burns (which is one reason I gave up cause even in real life people do that ALL THE TIME)

your trying your hardest and no matter what its NEVER good enough, your not trying, your making excuses, your a whiner, whats that say about my hardest? not a damn lot huh?

How would you feel to have that through your whole life, and basically being told "learn to spell" which I have not been able to do "or you cant be in society" (I'd bet 50$ many of you already ignore my posts, whats more is there is NOTHING i can do about it
And then there was all through grade school "if you dont learn to do this you will never get a job"
"you will neber be able to do X or this or that"


Your punishing me, ironing me for something I've been trying to fix my whole life and have had no luck, and be told its an "Excuse" or its a lie?

that hurts, that hurts a LOT

[Grek]

Also guys this is free will

Free will is the ability of agents to make choices free from certain kinds of constraints. Historically, the constraint of dominant concern in philosophy has been determinism, which holds that the future is determined completely by preceding events

Like I said - a lot of self-contradictory baggage. There's two possibilities. Either your choices are determined by some part of the world, or they are not. If they're predetermined then the Free part of free will doesn't exist. And if your actions aren't predetermined, then you make "choices" at random and don't have the Will part of free will.

The only coherent way to talk about decision making is to understand that you're a being who works deterministically and, as part of a deterministic process within you, can reflect upon your choices and determine to alter your self (ie. change your mind) such that you will choose differently than you would if you had not decided to change. Volition, choice and all of that are just expressions of you as a self-altering, deterministic process.
That said, why are we even discussing free will at all? Even if, hypothetically, we all agreed on what Free Will means and its implications regarding whether or not God is good or bad, that still doesn't address the actual topic of this thread: "Should you believe in God?"

God being a very very very good person does not make him more likely to exist than if he were a very very very bad person. Morality does not predict truth, truth predicts morality.

[Grek]

Doublepost:

Wolfy, you should make a Life Advice post to discuss your ongoing spelling woes. This isn't that thread.

[Wolfy]

Grek, you make a good point, but the reason why was they where trying to use this as "proof" that God dont exist.

We dont have truth when ti comes either way, both sides require faith, we are not at the level where we can prove or disprove God, so we cant, and so we talk about what we can, the belies styles and why people follow God or not

[Graknorke]

both sides require faith

Not really.
One side requires a massive amount of faith, the other requires that the person cannot accept something without evidence. It's not like believing something is a choice, it's just something that arises based on what a person knows (unless they try really hard at lying to themselves until they start to actually believe it; but I can't think of any place where that happens frequently.)

[Grek]

Yeah, as I've previously explained, you can get to "God almost certainly does not exist" from observation of the world plus two very basic premises that I'm confident that you (Wolfy) would agree with:

1. When considering which theory out of two different theories about how the world might be is probably true, you should always prefer less complicated theory to more complicated theory. In mathematical terms, P(A) ≥ P(A & B) for all events A and B.
2. The complexity of a theory is equal to the number of bits required to specify a perfect simulation of that theory in a universal Turing machine (ie. an idealized computer).

Because God is a very very complicated thing to simulate, all of the theories that specify God & the World are more complicated than theories that are just the World without simulating God. And this means that, unless we find evidence that rules out all of the theories without God that are less complex than the simplest non-ruled out theory with God, we should end up preferring a no-God theory to all of the God theories.