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[Max White]

And once you have done all the things?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i do believe i'm not the same person i was as a baby, and because a caveman wouldn't be able to appreciate classical music it wouldn't make much sense to reward him by giving him classical music. getting past that, if paradise is so awesome, why weren't we born in there then? doesn't god love us enough?

We where, we where in the Garden of Eden, and Adam and Eve messed it up, put it this way why do parents not give kids evrye single thing they ever want, and give them "par-dice"? Why do parents punish their kids, and let them go through their trials? its part of life and growing, maybe thats true there too, if you give a kid evrey single thing they hope for what happens?

So why did he?

For one love, its quite clear that many times you have to let your kid\what ever make their mistakes learn and live. or they turn out... with problems

Do I know why God dose this? fully no, but neither dose a kid know why their parent dose it, it dont make what the parent dose any less right dose it?

so paradise was the garden of eden? fuck, that's boring. adam and eve were in paradise and they manage to fuck up quite early, do the nice people that go to paradise also fuck up from time to time? after all they have all the eternity to do it

and why am i paying for the sin(eating an apple is a sin?) of a couple of cavemen? how is that moral?

and god made the rules, if we can fuck up, it's because god made it so we could fuck up, and we do fuck up bigtime. it's not our fault though, it's god's.

simple. god makes boredom go away

See then the implication is that we all live as mindless potatoes for all eternity. Still not as appealing to me as a finite lifespan.

oh, but you'll like it after you become a potato

[fqllve]

i too am an atheist and i too find the idea of nothingness after death relieving. i'm not worried about my death for my sake, but i'm having a really hard time coming to terms with the deaths of people very close to me, and i'm scared shit about what will happen to the people around me when i die. there's no beauty to be found in death in real life. there's nothing poetic about it, it's just ridiculous and unbelievable, and nothing can comfort you short of believing dead people are not really dead, which isn't that hard to believe, given that death is so hard to swallow

I don't mean to say there's something poetic about death. There isn't really, outside of movies. What I meant was that the only reason I feel like life is important is because it ends. Things have value because they're finite.

Also, sometimes the death of a loved one can be comforting. For example, my grandma had severe Alzheimer's and it was extraordinarily painful to see her like that. When she died it was a relief because she wasn't wasting away physically or mentally anymore. Although I do understand your underlying point, the idea that someone is completely and irrevocably gone can be hard to come to terms with. Gotta admit I never considered an afterlife as a solution to that problem though. I've kinda just... accepted that's the way it is. Hard sometimes though.

simple. god makes boredom go away

See then the implication is that we all live as mindless potatoes for all eternity. Still not as appealing to me as a finite lifespan.

This.

[Thecard]

Or... y'know, there's more to do than just build sandcastles and mope.

What takes an eternity to do?
Fuck if there is a god, that must be why it made this vast thing called the universe. So he could tune in to channel earth and watch the monkeys learn to use sticks. Not much else to do really. Damn, well that isn't that great, better give them morality and watch them abuse it! Oh look, they are killing each other over different interpretations of what I am like. Fuck, better select an form of existence and punish whoever guesses wrong!

Or, he made us because he wanted to have something he could love.  That's why most people like having kids.  But forcing your kids to think or act a certain way is not very loving.

It's funny how people write stories about mass brainwashing to pacify citizens, and that's a dystopia.  Yet a common question people have is "why doesn't God make someone do this?"  It seems a bit hypocritical to me.  You don't really want someone/something to make you think a certain way, do you?

[Wolfy]

Your assuming there is an end, why assume that?
Your also assuming we will have a feeling of boredom, what if you could do the same stuff over and over not get bored still have fun?
You may think now "I don't want that" but you wont mind then soooo like a kid who says he dont want to like girls, will soon change their minds

so paradise was the garden of eden? fuck, that's boring. adam and eve were in paradise and they manage to fuck up quite early, do the nice people that go to paradise also fuck up from time to time? after all they have all the eternity to do it

you don't even know what the Garden of Edan was, hell if we got you playing Dwarf fortress (Assuming you play it) when you where young enough you would think the same thing of DF, dose that mean you should not play DF now?

You have to stop acting like what you like and dislike now is what you will like then or even a decade form now.

and why am i paying for the sin(eating an apple is a sin?) of a couple of cavemen? how is that moral?

Becuse of free will, we pay because we STILL sin. Once you stop sin you can then come talk to me about what you "deserve"

and god made the rules, if we can fuck up, it's because god made it so we could fuck up, and we do fuck up bigtime. it's not our fault though, it's god's.

Wrong, God gave you free will, if a parent gives you a choice of studying or not, whose fault is it in the end? the kids for not picking, God choices not to force you to do anything

He lets you make your own choices and as such blame is on you.

You act like how boring it would be there, how boring would it be if God just made us do good all the time? not have free will?

oh, but you'll like it after you become a potato

And I'm sure your like a short life when your 80... not

History can show, young guys? want to live dont worry bout Tommy, as you grow older and mature your mind set will carnage, your no longer living for the now

Maybe that's why God has us wait here, so when we do go there we go of our own free will reddy for it instead of longing for this life.

[Bauglir]

And once you have done all the things?

Fortunately, I never will. Hooray for the nature of infinity.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

i too am an atheist and i too find the idea of nothingness after death relieving. i'm not worried about my death for my sake, but i'm having a really hard time coming to terms with the deaths of people very close to me, and i'm scared shit about what will happen to the people around me when i die. there's no beauty to be found in death in real life. there's nothing poetic about it, it's just ridiculous and unbelievable, and nothing can comfort you short of believing dead people are not really dead, which isn't that hard to believe, given that death is so hard to swallow

I don't mean to say there's something poetic about death. There isn't really, outside of movies. What I meant was that the only reason I feel like life is important is because it ends. Things have value because they're finite.

Also, sometimes the death of a loved one can be comforting. For example, my grandma had severe Alzheimer's and it was extraordinarily painful to see her like that. When she died it was a relief because she wasn't wasting away physically or mentally anymore. Although I do understand your underlying point, the idea that someone is completely and irrevocably gone can be hard to come to terms with. Gotta admit I never considered an afterlife as a solution to that problem though. I've kinda just... accepted that's the way it is. Hard sometimes though.

but sometimes the death of a loved one is just stupid, and once you get one of those, those comforting deaths will seem meaningless and trivial. sometimes you don't get time to say all the goodbyes you wanted to say, sometimes you're buying someone their Christmas present and then you find out they won't be around to receive it

[Max White]

oh, but you'll like it after you become a potato

I really, really hope that was a joke. I mean I smiled at it, but then there was that after thought of 'Oh shit, what if he didn't see the joke?'
I mean people use that same sort of logic to support homosexual 'curing' clinics. Funnily enough for religious reasons...

Or, he made us because he wanted to have something he could love.  That's why most people like having kids.  But forcing your kids to think or act a certain way is not very loving.

It's funny how people write stories about mass brainwashing to pacify citizens, and that's a dystopia.  Yet a common question people have is "why doesn't God make someone do this?"  It seems a bit hypocritical to me.  You don't really want someone/something to make you think a certain way, do you?

Aww, the super being just wants a hug, and will punish those that don't oblige to eternal hell. And not only do they need to give it a hug, they also need to guess its name and gender, stance on human rights issues and favorite day of the week, or they need to go sit in the BURNY CORNER for the rest of forever.
I don't want god to control people, partly because I don't think their is a god, and party because I hope there if there is a god, it gives us free will. Asking why doesn't god change peoples mind is as short sighted as asking for eternal life.

[XXSockXX]

Or, he made us because he wanted to have something he could love.  That's why most people like having kids.  But forcing your kids to think or act a certain way is not very loving.

Actually I find this a cynical argument. Because (normally) parents will do anything they can to prevent their kids from suffering. Which brings me back to my argument from before (ie the logical problem of evil).

[Wolfy]

Except your forgetting, study's show very often, and many parents follow this advice, some times you have to LET them do their own thing, let them get hurt, tell them no, cause if you dont then life will be hard
suffering is part of life and hate to say it but to a point your doing your kid a bad thing if you help out all their problems, sometime they have to learn to do it them selfs.

[Max White]

See why do you need to let the child do their own thing and sometimes get hurt for it? Because you want them to know better.
And why do you want them to know better? Because you won't always be around to protect them, so they need to be ready for that day.

Does god let us suffer so that we are ready for a time when he isn't there and things get worse?

[Askot Bokbondeler]

oh, but you'll like it after you become a potato

I really, really hope that was a joke. I mean I smiled at it, but then there was that after thought of 'Oh shit, what if he didn't see the joke?'
I mean people use that same sort of logic to support homosexual 'curing' clinics. Funnily enough for religious reasons...

wolfy used this argument seriously in his last response

Except your forgetting, study's show very often, and many parents follow this advice, some times you have to LET them do their own thing, let them get hurt, tell them no, cause if you dont then life will be hard
suffering is part of life and hate to say it but to a point your doing your kid a bad thing if you help out all their problems, sometime they have to learn to do it them selfs.

yes, because you have to prepare them for the shitty life the creator laid out for them. they have to cope with suffering, because there will be no paradise afterwards

[Wolfy]

See why do you need to let the child do their own thing and sometimes get hurt for it? Because you want them to know better.
And why do you want them to know better? Because you won't always be around to protect them, so they need to be ready for that day.

Does god let us suffer so that we are ready for a time when he isn't there and things get worse?

No, he dose it so we can use our free will, he dont want to be the God who dose everything for us, tells us everything to do and we blindly follow him, he wants us to come to him with love and having our own minds, and our own things

See my parents did it, they are still here, they can still help me but they dont do everything for me, that's what God dose, forever, God's not going anywhere, we are just getting our free will and learning how to be our selfs

My parents will help when I need it, but they are letting me be my own person because a life where someone else dose everything for you is not living, even you I think agree, or would you rathher the goverment tell you what to do, who you can marry, who you date and what you say?


HE lets us choose, be with him or not, would you rather him not let you pick?


"yes, because you have to prepare them for the shitty life the creator laid out for them. they have to cope with suffering, because there will be no paradise afterwards"

You can belive that and it will be true for you, I just hope you don't end up regretting it

See? God lets you pick, would you rather he force you?

[fqllve]

And once you have done all the things?

Fortunately, I never will. Hooray for the nature of infinity.

But you'd also have to do an infinite number of repetitions of infinite variations on an infinite number of activities (presuming of course the number of activities in the afterlife is infinite, which I suppose it would have to be).

Eternity is confusing...

[Max White]

No, he dose it so we can use our free will, he dont want to be the God who dose everything for us, tells us everything to do and we blindly follow him, he wants us to come to him with love and having our own minds, and our own things

See my parents did it, they are still here, they can still help me but they dont do everything for me, that's what God dose, forever, God's not going anywhere, we are just getting our free will and learning how to be our selfs

HE lets us choose, be with him or not, would you rather him not let you pick?

We chose to go to war. Ok, I can accept that is our fault. We should deal with the suffering involved in that.
We chose to have an economy. I can understand why there are poor people and don't ask god to solve what we should be working on fixing.

Nobody chose mass plagues that kill thousands in some of the most painful ways imaginable, or famines that leave children looking like living skeletons. God has these to answer for.

No amount of 'Being with him' has ever cured the sick.