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[Fenrir]

“Do you believe in Jesus? (Y/n)” is still a terrible criterion for access to eternal paradise. You can’t reform sinners by nailing an innocent man to a cross, then getting them to believe that it happened.

Of course, God could just grow a pair and admit that he is the only being at fault, because he was the one who manufactured humanity broken in the first place.

[Alpha Dwarf]

Applying modern voodoo mystic here:::


The greatest argument for someone of Christian faith, broad term "kay, to continue believing as they do, is that they have been doing it all along.

If any of you think these words are insincere, read them again, they are bare, contextless. There is only the isolated glow of our progress before you.

BLATANT EDIT!!!!!!!!!! oops, i meant to modify

[fqllve]

The point of grace by faith is that, no matter how good you are, how moral you decide to try to be, at the end of the day, you're a shitbag sinner who has no chance of saving his own soul. So, the point is to act the best person you can be, with the knowledge that you're never good enough without Jesus' sacrifice. I mean, if you're going to attempt to use Apostle's Creed as a get out of hell free card, you're not being sincere about it, so it's hardly real faith.

Except that faith isn't a particularly moral position, it doesn't necessarily make you a good person. People are perfectly capable of being dicks (or worse) while still being devout and sometimes it even encourages it.

But actually, that's not a really objectionable interpretation you have there. My big problems with salvation through grace are the Lutheran and Calvinist interpretations of it which basically absolves the person of their sins up to and including without their own consent. The Lutherans even say "by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone."

[Alpha Dwarf]

I don't know about you, but Jesus never cried, at least I believe that. In fact, there is plenty that I differ about, about Christ.

[Strife26]

Sure, but I'd contend that all dickishness like you're talking about isn't proper faith, it's people believing that they are good enough to make it on their own merits. If you're of the mindset of "I am a sinner, but I should be trying the best that I can to be a good person" there isn't much room for elitist, religious dickery.


I suppose that I'd make the preconditions for salvation in my ideal Christian system to be

1) I am a flawed human being who cannot attain salvation on my own
2) Despite this, and because of it, I should always be striving to be the best person that I can be.


With a third truth, that this is only through the Grace of Christ alone.

[Alpha Dwarf]

Sure, but I'd contend that all dickishness like you're talking about isn't proper faith, it's people believing that they are good enough to make it on their own merits. If you're of the mindset of "I am a sinner, but I should be trying the best that I can to be a good person" there isn't much room for elitist, religious dickery.


I suppose that I'd make the preconditions for salvation in my ideal Christian system to be

1) I am a flawed human being who cannot attain salvation on my own
2) Despite this, and because of it, I should always be striving to be the best person that I can be.


With a third truth, that this is only through the Grace of Christ alone.

GI fucking Joe brother. Welcome to the Revolution! America has not Manifested its Destiny just yet. Modern warfare will need a greater name, continued tradition.

[Leafsnail]

Sure, but I'd contend that all dickishness like you're talking about isn't proper faith, it's people believing that they are good enough to make it on their own merits.

I'd contend that all the non-porridge eating you're talking about isn't proper Scottishness, etc.

[Strife26]

Sure, but I'd contend that all dickishness like you're talking about isn't proper faith, it's people believing that they are good enough to make it on their own merits.

I'd contend that all the non-porridge eating you're talking about isn't proper Scottishness, etc.

Yeah, I suppose that my definition of Faith with a capital Foxtrot is a bit off of everyone else's, isn't it? At the very least, that's way I was raised to define it. I mean, dickishness by cause of faith is really just a subtype of dickishness by cause of feelings of superiority, isn't it?

I suppose that there's also disckishness by faith being well-meaning and blundering, but that's fairly tame in comparison, I think.

Sure, but I'd contend that all dickishness like you're talking about isn't proper faith, it's people believing that they are good enough to make it on their own merits. If you're of the mindset of "I am a sinner, but I should be trying the best that I can to be a good person" there isn't much room for elitist, religious dickery.


I suppose that I'd make the preconditions for salvation in my ideal Christian system to be

1) I am a flawed human being who cannot attain salvation on my own
2) Despite this, and because of it, I should always be striving to be the best person that I can be.


With a third truth, that this is only through the Grace of Christ alone.

GI fucking Joe brother. Welcome to the Revolution! America has not Manifested its Destiny just yet. Modern warfare will need a greater name, continued tradition.

What?

[Alpha Dwarf]

What?

Nothing up the nancy, good chap. Just the old wink wink.

I mean it when I say tradition. Look around this is America.

[Fenrir]

Yeah, I suppose that my definition of Faith with a capital Foxtrot is a bit off of everyone else's, isn't it? At the very least, that's way I was raised to define it. I mean, dickishness by cause of faith is really just a subtype of dickishness by cause of feelings of superiority, isn't it?

I suppose that there's also disckishness by faith being well-meaning and blundering, but that's fairly tame in comparison, I think.

I think part of the point is that faith should not even be part of the equation, unless you have a Blue-Orange moral system. “You didn’t have faith in Jesus,” should not be counted against a person, so it doesn’t make sense to judge character or deny access to paradise with it. Now, if you don’t feel that way, we have rather different values, and there isn’t really any more to say.

[Alpha Dwarf]

Yeah, I suppose that my definition of Faith with a capital Foxtrot is a bit off of everyone else's, isn't it? At the very least, that's way I was raised to define it. I mean, dickishness by cause of faith is really just a subtype of dickishness by cause of feelings of superiority, isn't it?

I suppose that there's also disckishness by faith being well-meaning and blundering, but that's fairly tame in comparison, I think.

I think part of the point is that faith should not even be part of the equation, unless you have a Blue-Orange moral system. “You didn’t have faith in Jesus,” should not be counted against a person, so it doesn’t make sense to judge character or deny access to paradise with it. Now, if you don’t feel that way, we have rather different values, and there isn’t really any more to say.

Fenny, big Norse poochy, that is how I feel. Satan is God, if not, think, why Satan if God? Satan punishes sinners, mewhoo no?

[Strife26]

Yeah, I suppose that my definition of Faith with a capital Foxtrot is a bit off of everyone else's, isn't it? At the very least, that's way I was raised to define it. I mean, dickishness by cause of faith is really just a subtype of dickishness by cause of feelings of superiority, isn't it?

I suppose that there's also disckishness by faith being well-meaning and blundering, but that's fairly tame in comparison, I think.

I think part of the point is that faith should not even be part of the equation, unless you have a Blue-Orange moral system. “You didn’t have faith in Jesus,” should not be counted against a person, so it doesn’t make sense to judge character or deny access to paradise with it. Now, if you don’t feel that way, we have rather different values, and there isn’t really any more to say.

I'd certainly stand with you there, Fenrir. That third clause wasn't a requirement for anything, but just what I'd consider truth. Without Christ's Crucifixion, the only way to achieve salvation is by being perfect. He opened the door, but I don't think knowing that He opened it is a requirement for entry.

[Alpha Dwarf]

Yeah, I suppose that my definition of Faith with a capital Foxtrot is a bit off of everyone else's, isn't it? At the very least, that's way I was raised to define it. I mean, dickishness by cause of faith is really just a subtype of dickishness by cause of feelings of superiority, isn't it?

I suppose that there's also disckishness by faith being well-meaning and blundering, but that's fairly tame in comparison, I think.

I think part of the point is that faith should not even be part of the equation, unless you have a Blue-Orange moral system. “You didn’t have faith in Jesus,” should not be counted against a person, so it doesn’t make sense to judge character or deny access to paradise with it. Now, if you don’t feel that way, we have rather different values, and there isn’t really any more to say.

I'd certainly stand with you there, Fenrir. That third clause wasn't a requirement for anything, but just what I'd consider truth. Without Christ's Crucifixion, the only way to achieve salvation is by being perfect. He opened the door, but I don't think knowing that He opened it is a requirement for entry.

God.

That alone is sacred. Christ in Heaven. Christ on Earth. Christ in Hell.

Of course, following after asians, or mongols, or whatever, God is not God for he is.

[Descan]

... I think Alpha is a spambot.

Regardless, I'm reporting him. He's not... I don't even know what he's talking about. At all.

It actually IS like a spambot, putting words together that sooooound like they mean something but don't actually mean anything? Either that, or a politician.

[Alpha Dwarf]

... I think Alpha is a spambot.

Regardless, I'm reporting him. He's not... I don't even know what he's talking about. At all.

It actually IS like a spambot, putting words together that sooooound like they mean something but don't actually mean anything? Either that, or a politician.

Dude, seriously someone back me up. Is God out of the discussion here? I'm still working on an Atheist thesis.

Here, I'll prove God, actually, uh your alive. Why? God. Don't know how? The past. Don't know why? Me neither. I never asked them.

Are you proclaiming that I post TOO much? First it's too many modifications, now too many posts.

Chill, bro, peace. I live The Meadows and Cali is not far away. Sniff your computer I'm uploading.