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[Sonlirain]

(trolling removed)

[justinlee999]

Did you just call atheism a religion?

Also you just compared Jews to Nazis, I hope you're joking.

[Flying Dice]

I try to avoid Godwin when talking about Israel, but it can be difficult at times.


I sort of find it hard to believe that you've never met an atheist who wasn't a raging asshole. I certainly won't claim to have never met a Christian who wasn't a hypocritical, ignorant, pushy jackass. More likely you're only remembering/recognizing as atheists the idiots who can't shut up about it. Though as above, atheism is not a religion, to say the least (even if certain types like to treat it as such).

I would probably call myself an agnostic atheist, but given the environment in which I live, I can't afford to give ground of any sort. If saying "I don't believe in deities." allows me to continue on my way without further harassment but "I am inclined to disbelieve in the existence of deities but cannot claim that they don't exist with certainty." drags me into a extended discussion/conversion attempt, the choice is obvious.

[kaijyuu]

Sorry. We'll resume anti fun mode, debating theology pointlessly due to axiomatic differences in opinion making resolution impossible.

obviously we just need to disprove the other side's axioms.

On the off chance you're serious...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom

As classically conceived, an axiom is a premise so evident as to be accepted as true without controversy.

It is impossible to disprove an axiom, as it is so basic to reasoning that it has no supporting arguments. You CAN however point out logically contradictory axioms held by the same person, which will force the person you're debating with to choose one or the other. This is the method which most mainstream religions are most easily attacked; someone who accepts empiricism (and thus, science) and Christianity has a lot of mutually exclusive beliefs.

[Hiiri]

You can always troll the agnostics instead.

"Yo agnostics!  I guess you totally don't care whether or not invisible pink unicorns exist!  Eh?  Eh?  Maybe they do, maybe they don't right?"

Yo agnostics! Check the box if you agree!
[ ] God exists.

[MaximumZero]

All in all... i guess i'm just a big fat lazy bigot because i just can't find any religion i'd actually like and respect.

The question here is simple: What do you believe, if anything?

[10ebbor10]

Did you just call atheism a religion?

I'm sure he did. Also, Atheism often is just this for some people, but hell if they're going to accept it.

As some important person once said(I should really remember those whom I'm quoting):
A human has either a diety or idol(Note that I probably mistranslated the quote in addition to only remembering it).

This doesn't condemn any Atheists, or praise religious people. After all, the god referred to is just a methaphor. I could give a long explanation on this whole thing, but I'm not going to do so.
Short version: If you believe in God, you base your identity on what he thinks of you. Since God is not a very talkative person, you base you identity on yourself.
Idolism means that your base your identity on what other people make of you, of what they think you're.

That's an ideal, of course.

[Max White]

Well I certainly have no problem with Idols, but the difference between an idol and a god is that you pray to a god to solve all your problems, you just aspire to be a little more like your idol. A homeless man who makes a god of a carpenter who lived 2,000 years ago closes his hands in prayer and hopes for a house. A homeless man who makes an idol of a carpenter who lived 2,000 years ago opens his hands and grabs a plank of wood to get started.

[10ebbor10]

Well I certainly have no problem with Idols, but the difference between an idol and a god is that you pray to a god to solve all your problems, you just aspire to be a little more like your idol. A homeless man who makes a god of a carpenter who lived 2,000 years ago closes his hands in prayer and hopes for a house. A homeless man who makes an idol of a carpenter who lived 2,000 years ago opens his hands and grabs a plank of wood to get started.

(I knew I mistranslated something. Also, pretty sure you didn't read the explanation beneath it).

Not idols as in people that other people look up to,  but as in false god, something like that.

[Max White]

If an idol is defined as a false god, and a false god is a god that isn't real, then lots and lots of people are worshiping idols my friend.

[Siquo]

So many assumptions.

You CAN however point out logically contradictory axioms held by the same person, which will force the person you're debating with to choose one or the other.

All the other stuff you said is 100% true, but logic itself is just another axiom, so this doesn't work. If there's a real, all powerful god, he'll take your logic, chew it up, and spit it out.

Well I certainly have no problem with Idols, but the difference between an idol and a god is that you pray to a god to solve all your problems

Not always. I agree that externalisation of the locus of control is detrimental to ones personal development, but there are many types of god that allow for personal responsibility and self-development.

A human has either a diety or idol.

I like this one. An idol can be anything: yourself, science, that the world around us exists, or even the idea that you can't tell (agnosticism is idol-worshipping, HA!).

[Max White]

It has a lot less to do with the god in question and what their specific holy texts preach, and more to do with the fact that as long as people have something that they think can help them, they are less likely to try and help themselves. Most religions promote hard work and helping yourself, but that doesn't stop people from gathering in a stadium to pray for the economy to fix itself rather than listening to economic experts to fix the problem.

[Brotato]

If an idol is defined as a false god, and a false god is a god that isn't real, then lots and lots of people are worshiping idols my friend.

By Idol, it might be more appropriate to say use something like power, money, greed, love, hatred, admiration, or really anything that embodies what you want, you what you think you want.

[10ebbor10]

If an idol is defined as a false god, and a false god is a god that isn't real, then lots and lots of people are worshiping idols my friend.

Of course, I know. But where do you get the second thing from? As clearly explained below the quote, it's a complete methaphor. You can have who worship a "God", even if they do not know it. You have Christians who worship an idolized version of their God(for example the Holier than thou guys).

I'm sure you're taking the methaphor way to literal. It's just a synopsis of one of the points of the Bible (and other Holy books preach).

Well I certainly have no problem with Idols, but the difference between an idol and a god is that you pray to a god to solve all your problems

Not always. I agree that externalisation of the locus of control is detrimental to ones personal development, but there are many types of god that allow for personal responsibility and self-development.

Following the scriptures of the Bible is going to get you into more problems than it's going to get you out of. (Even if we don't intrepret it litteral). Over all, and especially the later part it preaches that you should not judge others, but be there for them ,and help them. When someone hits you in the face, show them your other cheek and stuff like that. It's breaking down the Eye for an Eye principle. As such, you put yourself in a weak position, and risk to become part of the oppressed.

A human has either a diety or idol.

I like this one. An idol can be anything: yourself, science, that the world around us exists, or even the idea that you can't tell (agnosticism is idol-worshipping, HA!).

Even more, God can be replaced with any of these too. It's more the way that you believe in them that matters.

If an idol is defined as a false god, and a false god is a god that isn't real, then lots and lots of people are worshiping idols my friend.

By Idol, it might be more appropriate to say use something like power, money, greed, love, hatred, admiration, or really anything that embodies what you want, you what you think you want.

I think you got it.

[Siquo]

Well I certainly have no problem with Idols, but the difference between an idol and a god is that you pray to a god to solve all your problems

Not always. I agree that externalisation of the locus of control is detrimental to ones personal development, but there are many types of god that allow for personal responsibility and self-development.

Following the scriptures of the Bible is going to get you into more problems than it's going to get you out of. (Even if we don't intrepret it litteral). Over all, and especially the later part it preaches that you should not judge others, but be there for them ,and help them. When someone hits you in the face, show them your other cheek and stuff like that. It's breaking down the Eye for an Eye principle. As such, you put yourself in a weak position, and risk to become part of the oppressed.

So? Why is that a bad thing?