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Author Topic: Roguelike Mafia 5 - That's the last of them. [Game Over!]  (Read 62830 times)

Scelly9

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2012, 05:55:14 pm »

Scelly, if you were town, whom would you most like on the town side?
I would say either Hapah, Irony, or Native.
Why Hapah?
I'm not sure. More of a gut thing.
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Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2012, 06:56:50 pm »

ZU: But one will be dead from lynch before he could use the scroll, and I'm chalking any third parties up as neutral.
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Bookthras

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2012, 08:37:12 pm »

Hapah:
Book: That is...not quite what I was expecting. [...] Could you outline your reasoning a little more, if possible?
Sure. First, I'd use any other useful stuff I have ahead of a gift scroll. I prefer me actively doing something rather than indirectly improving the chances of someone else doing something next night. Second, yes, I'd rather not run the risk of giving items to the scum, even if it means not giving them to the town. Fewer weapons for them is better for town than more weapons for town, given that there are limited opportunities to use them, people get their own daily anyway, and every item a scum gets makes them more versatile and unpredictable.

As I said, if I had nothing else worthwhile to use, I'd probably use it on me, and only on others if I was pretty sure they weren't scum.

Now for the other thing:
Assuming we lynch today, you are saying that using the scroll to give yourself and the four (five?) other town doesn't outweigh giving items to the two scum? [...] But one will be dead from lynch before he could use the scroll, and I'm chalking any third parties up as neutral.
Your numbers don't add up. Worse, you're first digging for them, and then "chalking up" the rest when pointed out they don't add up. Why are you going down this particular rat hole? Are you concerned about third parties at the moment? When do you think would be the right time to be, and what would you do about it then?


IronyOwl: Thank you for your one solitary post in the game so far. Some follow-up questions, please:
IronyOwl: [...] if you had both a scroll of protection and a scroll of death, which one would you use tonight and why?
As for protection or death, I'd go with death. Odds of me protecting the NK target aren't that great, whereas odds of me murdering someone who's detrimental to the game are pretty good.
Please define "detrimental" in this context. I notice you say "detrimental to the game", rather than "detrimental to the town", how important would your perception of alignment be in your target selection? Or would it be merely a meta-gaming kill? Would your answers to these questions change for subsequent nights?

Dariush: When do you feel it's acceptable to lie about your night actions? What about class? Current items?
Please also answer the same question you asked Dariush. Speaking of which, what do you think of his answer, and of his statement that someone who is voting him now will "forget" and keep his vote there by end of day?


Toaster: vote count, please. Sorry to see the game started a bit slow.
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Zathras hefts the corpse-of-webadict puppet and works its mouth: "I declare world peace! Yay! All hail Zathras!"
Everyone is handsomely rewarded, and lives happily ever after.  Except for Bookthras, who dies of poison in the night.

Toaster

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2012, 08:47:08 pm »

Vote Count:

Bookthras: Hapah
Hapah: Urist Imiknorris
Urist Imiknorris:
NativeForeigner:
Dariush: IronyOwl
blackmagechill:
Scelly9: zombie urist, Dariush
Mr. Dwarfinton: Scelly9
zombie urist:
IronyOwl: Bookthras

Not voting:  NativeForeigner, blackmagechill, Mr. Dwarfinton


Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 7/24 at 11 PM EST.
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zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2012, 11:11:43 pm »

ZU: But one will be dead from lynch before he could use the scroll, and I'm chalking any third parties up as neutral.
Why are you so sure a town will be lynched and why making so many assumptions about the setup in general?
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Hapah

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2012, 11:26:40 pm »

Book: Concerning the scroll, thank you.

And I don't see where my numbers are off. With a 7-2-1 setup (which I don't think is unreasonable, but it's still definitely an assumption), and assuming a town lynch first day (which I now realize I never specified), we'd go into the night 6-2-1. Hitting everyone with the scroll with either give four other townies items (if there's 1 NK) or 5 (if the NK failed or wasn't attempted). It might be some other sort of setup (8-2, 8-1-1 like the RL with the jewel, whatever). But your answer is good; I guess any possible answer would boil down to "use it on only myself" or "use it on others with stipulation x". We have different approaches, but it's all good.

PPE: I can't help it. I try to plan ahead at least a little, and I have to make assumptions to make plans. A scum lynch would be great, but I tend to assume the worst. Oh, and Unvote.
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NativeForeigner

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2012, 11:50:19 pm »

NativeForeigner: Who do you think would be the most dangerous scum in this game?

Probably you or Scelly. I don't know either of you well enough to know how you generally play as scum.

Spent all of today celebrating the four-year anniversary, so I'll catch up and post sometime tomorrow afternoon (Pacific).
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Yeah, you're a dick, NativeForeigner.
Quit being such a dick, you dick.
Maybe if you weren't such a dick you wouldn't be such a dick.

IronyOwl

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2012, 04:53:25 am »

Mr. Dwarfington:
IronyOwl: Who wouldn't you want to be scum if you were a townie? Who wouldn't you want to be a townie if you were scum?
Bookthras in both cases. Possibly Native as well, but he tends to be a bit lurky. Everyone else is either unknown or not really any more dangerous than anyone else. Except possibly Imiknorris, but I don't properly remember if that's the case or not.

Probably no one since I could end up screwing over a good guy.

Without one since I'll probably never be sure who is a bad guy and screwing over good guys is a pretty bad idea.

I would probably use it since dying sucks.
This all seems incredibly cowardly. What kind of ratios or probabilities do you think are acceptable for aiming a kill that might hit scum and might hit town? What about a roleblock? Stranger effects, like Curse Armor?

What about being unkillable for a night versus the chance of revealing the existence of an item which grants scum an additional night kill? What about handing such an item to someone else?

That's a rather random vote.
What's your point?


Bookthras:
IronyOwl: Thank you for your one solitary post in the game so far. Some follow-up questions, please:
Yeah, sorry. Will try to avoid too much of that this game.

As for protection or death, I'd go with death. Odds of me protecting the NK target aren't that great, whereas odds of me murdering someone who's detrimental to the game are pretty good.
Please define "detrimental" in this context. I notice you say "detrimental to the game", rather than "detrimental to the town", how important would your perception of alignment be in your target selection? Or would it be merely a meta-gaming kill? Would your answers to these questions change for subsequent nights?
N1, I don't think I'm going to have any really solid suspicions, so it'd likely be knocking off an early lurker or mislynch magnet. Perception of alignment would of course be important if I had any worth mentioning.

Subsequent nights, the answer would be different in that I'd have actual reads, but there's a good chance it'd end up being used on someone I figured we were going to lynch anyway. Depending on how you want to look at it, that might be different or the same as lynching someone who's liable to dig themselves a hole at some future date.

Dariush: When do you feel it's acceptable to lie about your night actions? What about class? Current items?
Please also answer the same question you asked Dariush.
Night actions almost never, since if you're claiming them in the first place odds are that's information town needs and needs accurately. In theory some ploy to out scum as lying could work, like not claiming a rez hoping scum will do so, but that requires some method of being more credible than scum when you call them on it, and probably more importantly, being credible enough to change your story later if it doesn't work.

Class is somewhat stranger. I normally wouldn't think it's all that important, but that also means there's fewer reasons to lie about it, so in general I'd say it's a scum move. Lying about being a class that's better at acquiring items sounds pretty weak, lying to avoid suspicion because of a less town-friendly class is dangerous, and lying about being a thief so you can keep stealing requires your night selection being better than your lynch choice and denies town vital information.

Current items is somewhat more interesting, since there's obviously a lot of room to fool scum there. In this case, it depends on just what exactly is going on; obviously lying about having a much more scum-dangerous item is a lot more understandable than more trivial stuff, and lying about it in general is more understandable than when the point is to coordinate everyone. I guess this one boils down to "When you know what you're doing and have a good plan" more than the others.

Speaking of which, what do you think of his answer, and of his statement that someone who is voting him now will "forget" and keep his vote there by end of day?
Clumsy but in line with his usual. I assume by "plan he greatly doesn't want to share" he's implying that it's a good plan and so on, so it's less specific than I'd have liked but essentially "correct" and normal for him.

For "forgetting" I'm not sure. My guess is that he's being preemptively bitter about being an easy (but not necessarily unjustified) lynch.



Scelly:
For warrior, my suspicions would be slightly higher. Pally and Ranger the same. I wouldn't base a case on it though, since I'm sure several people are going to choose random.
What if it was confirmed that they had not chosen random, and that their current class was a deliberate selection?
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Mr. Dwarfinton

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2012, 01:36:14 pm »

Mr.D: Say you have a scroll of command. Do you use it on the scummiest looking person or the towniest person?

Uh neither, I probably wouldn't use the scroll of command on anyone because if it's a scum then chances are I'll be dead. If it's a town person then nothing will happen or I'll end up looking suspicious because their action redirected towards me. Please correct me if I'm entirely wrong about how the SoC works.

Mr. Dwarfington:
IronyOwl: Who wouldn't you want to be scum if you were a townie? Who wouldn't you want to be a townie if you were scum?
Bookthras in both cases. Possibly Native as well, but he tends to be a bit lurky. Everyone else is either unknown or not really any more dangerous than anyone else. Except possibly Imiknorris, but I don't properly remember if that's the case or not.

Probably no one since I could end up screwing over a good guy.

Without one since I'll probably never be sure who is a bad guy and screwing over good guys is a pretty bad idea.

I would probably use it since dying sucks.
This all seems incredibly cowardly. What kind of ratios or probabilities do you think are acceptable for aiming a kill that might hit scum and might hit town? What about a roleblock? Stranger effects, like Curse Armor?

What about being unkillable for a night versus the chance of revealing the existence of an item which grants scum an additional night kill? What about handing such an item to someone else?

Part 1 of your question directed towards me which concerns kills and other stuff:
Because there are ten people then there are probably 2 scum and 1 neutral person. Let's say the neutral person is against the town. That's about a third of a chance to hit a bad guy. I'd choose the 3 scummiest people and pick one and then aim all the stuff at that person.

Part 2 of your question involving all that other stuff:
Depends on the chance of revealing the item. I wouldn't give it to a person because they could be scum.

Scelly: What would you do with Excalibur?
IronyOwl: If you had the Scroll of Permanent Scrying and you had to use it how would you decide who to use it on? If you had the boots of blinding speed, two items that allowed you to kill, two items that allowed you to inspect a person and two items that roleblocked a person how would you decide what items to use?
Hapah: If you had a scroll of tracking how would you decide who to use it on?


Please tell me if I forgot any questions. I'm rather tired so tell me if anything doesn't make sense.
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blackmagechill

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2012, 04:19:49 pm »

Mr.D: Say you have a scroll of command. Do you use it on the scummiest looking person or the towniest person?

Uh neither, I probably wouldn't use the scroll of command on anyone because if it's a scum then chances are I'll be dead. If it's a town person then nothing will happen or I'll end up looking suspicious because their action redirected towards me. Please correct me if I'm entirely wrong about how the SoC works.
Mr.D, you seem awfully afraid of dying for a townie.
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zombie urist

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2012, 04:21:37 pm »

How do know he's a townie?
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Mr. Dwarfinton

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2012, 04:30:56 pm »

Mr.D: Say you have a scroll of command. Do you use it on the scummiest looking person or the towniest person?

Uh neither, I probably wouldn't use the scroll of command on anyone because if it's a scum then chances are I'll be dead. If it's a town person then nothing will happen or I'll end up looking suspicious because their action redirected towards me. Please correct me if I'm entirely wrong about how the SoC works.
Mr.D, you seem awfully afraid of dying for a townie.

Because I got lynched at day 2 last game.
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IronyOwl

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2012, 04:34:25 pm »

Mr. Dwarfington:
Part 1 of your question directed towards me which concerns kills and other stuff:
Because there are ten people then there are probably 2 scum and 1 neutral person. Let's say the neutral person is against the town. That's about a third of a chance to hit a bad guy. I'd choose the 3 scummiest people and pick one and then aim all the stuff at that person.
So, you're lying? Earlier you said:

Probably no one since I could end up screwing over a good guy.
And stated that you wouldn't want a kill. Now you're saying that you would use a kill/roleblock/etc. Why the change in story?

Part 2 of your question involving all that other stuff:
Depends on the chance of revealing the item. I wouldn't give it to a person because they could be scum.
And here you're lying again. Didn't you explicitly say that you'd use the ring, then hand it over to someone else when revealed? Now you're saying no, you wouldn't hand it over.


And neither of these actually answered the questions I was asking, either. I wanted to know what were acceptable odds for you, not what you'd do. Is a 1/10 chance of killing scum and a 9/10 chance of killing a townie enough to use a kill? What about 2:8? 2:1:7, with the 1 being third party? Where does it become acceptable? The odds were also what I was asking about regarding the One Ring- I wanted to know specifics on what chances were acceptable for that, not just that it "depends" on them.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Mr. Dwarfinton

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2012, 05:01:49 pm »

Acceptable odds would be a 7/10 chance of killing a scum. When I replied I was under the impression I couldn't choose 'none' as an answer, I am under the same impression now. Sorry for misunderstanding what you asked.

As for the ring, a non-town player gets their own kill and an additional vote. Not an additional kill. If they were scum they would already have a kill so it would only be useful to non-town players. As for the part of giving it away I said I would give it away to a person who was important to the townies, not just anyone.
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blackmagechill

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Re: Roguelike Mafia 5 - The Crown of the Keeper [Day 1]
« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2012, 05:18:53 pm »

How do know he's a townie?
I'm assuming he wants to think he's town. I'm not really all that sure though. his D2 lynch excuse is a pretty lame one though. Not worth a vote, but he's looking pretty shady.

Mr.D: What's with the paranoia about death? And furthermore:

Acceptable odds would be a 7/10 chance of killing a scum. When I replied I was under the impression I couldn't choose 'none' as an answer, I am under the same impression now. Sorry for misunderstanding what you asked.

As for the ring, a non-town player gets their own kill and an additional vote. Not an additional kill. If they were scum they would already have a kill so it would only be useful to non-town players. As for the part of giving it away I said I would give it away to a person who was important to the townies, not just anyone.
How would it only be useful to non-town players? If you have an extra vote you can make sure that the person that YOU think is a mafioso gets lynched, and, if not, you could get the kill on them the night after. How would that make it only useful to the mafia?
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