Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Azure]

I Used to do this with my haulers all the time it's pretty solid if you rely on them to stop sieges. They'll get train up fairly quickly. It has a couple MAJOR problems though.

• Motivated Dwarves. Motivated dwarves will occasionally do indiv. combat drill which will cut into the amount of time they'll doing their job.This cripples any plan trainins doctors/jewelers/traders/trainers/etc.

Don't assign them a barracks or archery range. That's my solution, and it works great. And keep permanently inactive, they activate automatically when given a station or kill order, and deactivate once the order is cancelled or completed.

Nice solution, I never thought of it. Armored Surgeons here I come!

[wuphonsreach]

The militia is working well for me in my latest fort.  I have 29 of my 39 dwarves in crossbow+buckler squads, using wooden bolts.  They only get sent out when the goblin ambushes have passed through the traps and they're all running away / unconscious.

Two dozen dwarves shooting wood bolts = fun to watch

Even if it does take them dozens of bolts to kill the goblins, they're getting lots of training.

Once I get the metal industry up and running, I'll be rearranging the squads and putting the dwarves with at least dodge/armor skill into a more advanced armor setup (basically, full iron armor, but without the breastplate, greaves and chain leggings).

[Jilladilla]

The militia is working well for me in my latest fort.  I have 29 of my 39 dwarves in crossbow+buckler squads, using wooden bolts.  They only get sent out when the goblin ambushes have passed through the traps and they're all running away / unconscious.

Two dozen dwarves shooting wood bolts = fun to watch

Even if it does take them dozens of bolts to kill the goblins, they're getting lots of training.

Once I get the metal industry up and running, I'll be rearranging the squads and putting the dwarves with at least dodge/armor skill into a more advanced armor setup (basically, full iron armor, but without the breastplate, greaves and chain leggings).

Aren't greaves and leggings mutually exclusive? I remember doing that in my 1st successful fort... Ended up wasting a lot of iron... And precious coal...

[wuphonsreach]

You're right, they are indeed "shaped" items according to the armor page in the wiki.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Armor#Lower_Body
   
Issues equipping soldiers (34.11)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113502.0

Which makes me wonder whether it's ever of any use to make iron chain leggings for dwarves, they weigh 19 urists and I think iron greaves are only 20-odd?  If they're lighter, then they're worth making for the hauling dwarves.

On the upside, chain leggings melt down at a 150% return rate.  So they're a viable item to skill up on for the armor dwarf.  (Just like you use picks or battle axes for the weapon dwarf, buckets for the blacksmith and coins for the metalsmith.)

[wuphonsreach]

Which gives me (3) basic uniforms.  The basic uniform for all militia which can go "over" clothing:

- Crossbow (wood or bone)
- Buckler (often made of wood if I have a legendary carpenter)

A more advanced uniform, which can still go "over" existing clothing:

- Crossbow (wood or bone)
- Buckler (still wood)
- Iron Helm (weight 7)
- Iron Mail Shirt (weight 19)
- (2) cloaks
- (2) hoods

The iron mail shirt weighs 19 urists, but it fits over existing clothing well and seems dwarfy.  If it weighs too much, only use it for the "strong dwarf" squad or a squad that has some basic skills in Armor User.  You might have issues with boots/gauntlets fitting over existing mittens/shoes.  So until you're ready to specify a "full" uniform, you should probably skip the boots/gauntlets.

Then there's the full outfit, which is the same as a regular squad uniform, but with only 2 cloaks/hoods instead of 3-5.  It is used in a "replace" clothing setup.  The full outfit also tends to not use the breastplate and greaves due to weight issues.

Iron: mail shirt, helm, gauntlets, high/low boots, buckler
Leather: hood x2, cloak x2, tunic, trousers, gloves, mittens
Cloth: socks
Wood/Bone: crossbow

[krenshala]

Chain leggings should cover the entire leg, where greaves only cover from knee to ankle.

[WealthyRadish]

Greaves and leggings cover the lower body and the upper and lower legs, with the same coverage between them.

[DrKillPatient]

Chain leggings should cover the entire leg, where greaves only cover from knee to ankle.

Greaves and leggings cover the lower body and the upper and lower legs, with the same coverage between them.

From the raws:

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_GREAVES]
[NAME:greaves:greaves]
[ARMORLEVEL:3]
[LBSTEP:MAX]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:15]
[LAYER_PERMIT:30]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:6]
[METAL]
[BARRED]
[HARD]

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LEGGINGS]
[NAME:leggings:leggings]
[CHAIN_METAL_TEXT]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[METAL_ARMOR_LEVELS]
[LBSTEP:MAX]
[SHAPED]
[LAYER:ARMOR]
[COVERAGE:100]
[LAYER_SIZE:15]
[LAYER_PERMIT:30]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]
[SCALED]
[METAL]
[LEATHER]
[BARRED]
[STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL]
They seem to cover the same amount, as shown by their LBSTEP values. Notable differences are [HARD] and [STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL], and [MATERIAL_SIZE], which is 5 for leggings and 6 for greaves.

According to the wiki, [MATERIAL_SIZE] determines the amount of bars that it takes to make, so that might not do anything armor-wise. The wiki says that [STRUCTURAL_ELASTICITY_CHAIN_METAL] "seems to make blunt attacks more damaging", but notes that "further testing is needed." No information is available for the [HARD] tag.

[Mr S]

Hmmm...  does removing the [SHAPED] tag from greaves require a regen?  Honestly, they shouldn't be shaped.  If Toady's intent is for them to be mutually co-exclusive, I can understand, sort of.  But, historically, they weren't mutually co-exclusive.

[i2amroy]

Hmmm...  does removing the [SHAPED] tag from greaves require a regen?  Honestly, they shouldn't be shaped.  If Toady's intent is for them to be mutually co-exclusive, I can understand, sort of.  But, historically, they weren't mutually co-exclusive.

No removing the [SHAPED] token does not require a regen. If I was going to remove it I'd probably remove it from leggings, not greaves. This is because while leggings were much closer to pants; greaves are virtually identical to modern shin guards, which are [SHAPED] in the sense of it.

[Mr S]

Derp, yes that's exactly what I meant!!   

[wuphonsreach]

So the main difference between greaves and mail leggings would be:
- blunt protection (which isn't verified)
- weight (not sure on weights of greaves vs mail leggings)
- material requirements (leggings = 1 bar, greaves = 2 bars)
- number of bars returned when smelted (leggings are far better, 150% vs 90%)

For a fortress that is just starting out, I feel the mail leggings make more sense as you can melt the leggings back down into metal bars in order to train up the armor smith.  The dwarves will wear what they can, will upgrade to better versions as time goes on, and the melting back down gives 50% more bars then you started with.

And if the leggings are lighter, they they're a more valid option for haulers who may not be strong dwarves or armor trained. 

[zubb2]

I just give virtualy 80 to 90 percent of my dwarves axes about 5 picks and farmers never leave.

All this is usualy behind a trap hall and if they do leave then I get more dwarves and those new dwarves get old axes.

If I have a military at all it is one or two "Spartans" danger room trained dwarves in chain with a sheild and spear and mabey a helmet.

Latley my danger dwarves have died from broken fingers and noeses because their armor was replaced instead of overd.

Im gonna trie some autobows now.

[Oaktree]

My archery bunkers use a mix of firing platforms for working with squads of different ability.  Higher ability squads (usually small) use standard fortifications.  The larger, and generally less experienced, squads use "firing ports".  These are essentially a lowered drawbridge giving the squad an open firing view.

They obviously need to be used carefully depending on situation; enemy flyers, enemy archers, etc.  But they're also built elevated or behind ditches so that the marksdwarves will not charge out after emptying their quivers.  But a bunker centrally located in a keep or kill zone with separate levers for each direction can be quite effective.  Especially if you wait to open it until the melee goblins are at close range - it helps make every bolt count.

[Wrex]

I like to use the bpatmurdered hall design, It is as follows:


Imagine a hallway, if you will, but not reallt a hallway. Imagine a hallway the goes all the way to the wall, goes forwards two tiles, hits the opposite wall, and so on and so forth in a zig zag pattern. Between the Zig zags, use channels with the ramp removed. On the hallway, fill it with traps, and at the end, a number of fortifications from which marksdwarves can fire.


It's like space invaders, but with more dakka.