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[Tamren]

I could use some help. My next computer purchase is going to be a gaming rig. What kinds of things should i be looking for? I try to stay current with the latest tech advances but i dont have much time to devote to such research. What i do know has a lot of gaps in it.

Afaik to run DF better, its more important to have a more powerful processor right? The graphics card has little to do, but i still want a good one.

So far im thinking of:
Case: Antec 900. Cause it rocks, stays cool and ill probably need the room.
Mobo: No clue, dont know enough about em.
Processor: Something in an Intel core 2 duo? How does AMD stack up?
PSU: Bigger = better?
Ram: DDR2 seems to be the way to go. Is 1gig enough for gaming? I figured i would get dual 512 sticks and buy another pair later down the road. I heard that 3-4 gigs is massive overkill unless i plan to do video editing or CGI work, is that true?
Hard drive: 250gigs seems to be the average nowadays. For backup purposes this techie i know reccomended getting 2 and putting them in a RAID config. It sounds like a good idea but does it slow performance?
Cooling: Probably not needed if i get the Antec, otherwise what works well?
Sound card: Onboard AC97 isnt enough but I dont want some massive top of the line suround system because i dont have the room to support one anyway. Is it possible to get suround sound in a headset instead of 7+ speakers?
Moniter: Id much rather have an LCD than a CRT. But i dont know anything about them, what should i be looking for?
Mouse/KB: I plan to use my current set until it breaks but i plan to pass on this computer "set" to someone else. So i will probably end up buying a new set, what should i look for? Optical mice are much better than ball mice, i know that much. How reliable are wireless setups?
OS: I hear Vista is a steaming pile of shit, but DX10 is hot stuff. Will XP suffice? and later when it matures a bit could i install vista on a seperate hard drive altogether to have both on the same computer?

Graphics card: I was told that most GPUs are massive overkill. What i would like is something that can handle the newer games in full detail with no lag. Games like TF2, the newer MMos and such. DX10 is up and coming and to my knowledge there are only 2 cards capable of dx10 support and both are from nividia. Right now i have radeon 9600 pro and it is showing its age. Nvidia seems to be the way to go because of recent tech advances. I hear "unified shaders" quoted a lot but what are they exactly?

A GeForce 8800 GTX would be awesome, or even an ultra. I wouldnt mind saving up just for the extra power. But i wouldnt bother getting them unless i actually need that power, since i still want to be ready for Dx10, would an 8800 GTS suffice? with a possible second GTS linked with SLI down the road? Or would i be better off saving for the GTX because it will give me more mileage? And of course i could always get a second.

Am i missing anything?

[Ltheb]

Well, it so happens I plan on purchasing a new computers worth of parts soon (in 1 - 3 weeks) and assembling them into some sort of monstrosity that will likely menace with spikes of silicon.

Mobo & Processor are very important factors though; Your Mobo will likely be the limiting factor to how much you can upgrade the thing, and the processor does all the work, so if you want the thing to run Dwarf Fortress's final release in the year 21XX, best pick a good one.  

Right now AMD has pretty cheap dual core processors, but only because Intel has very, very high quality processors and is a step ahead tech wise. (They actually have an Intel Mobo that supports DDR3, whereas I could not find an AMD board that did it)Intel's Core 2 Duos are high quality, reliable, and not ridiculously priced like their Core 2 Extremes. Go AMD if you want to trim the price down, but from what I have seen, Intel always has higher quality stuff, even if it might be overpriced.

The motherboard you choose affects every other component you plan to buy. So if you buy a Mobo that supports Intel Dual Core, but not Core 2 Extreme, and buy a Core 2 Extreme, even if they are the same socket, the core 2 Extreme will not work, and may become damaged. (A friend of mine did this and was quite sad) The Mobo also determines what kind of Ram to get, Power supply yadda yadda just make sure all the details match up.   Mobo Layout also might prevent you from doing fancy things like having 2 video cards due to size constraints. Not something you can instantly gauge without prior experience, but something to consider.

And for Power supply, it depends on what setup you have. With your listing, I would go for something over 550 Watts, especially if you go for a high-end video  card. Vid cards eat tons of energy. (My radeon 2900xt is gonna need 300 Watts by itself!) My current computer suffers from a insufficient power supply, and that hampers its already inferior capabilities.

Vista is indeed crap. Give it a year or two, and it MIGHT be good, but Xp is leagues better right now. Heck, I couldn't even run Dwarf Fortress on Vista without being below 20 Fps. Vista had some nice features, but nothing thats worth the hassle for right now. If you plan to go with Vista, install more Gigs of Ram. Thats right, More. What ever you plan on, add some, because Vista is super inefficient. Most of vistas memory hogging has to do with its abuse of Splash screens for everything and that it stores alot of stuff in RAM for 'quick' access, so if you hit the memory ceiling, you computer will come to a crashing halt. The opening the start menu should not consume 15 Megs of ram by itself! And hitting Ctrl-Alt-Delete in vista only makes things worse by activating yet another splash screen you must navigate before you can close programs.

[Felix the Cat]

quote:Originally posted by Tamren:
<STRONG>I could use some help. My next computer purchase is going to be a gaming rig. What kinds of things should i be looking for? I try to stay current with the latest tech advances but i dont have much time to devote to such research. What i do know has a lot of gaps in it.

Afaik to run DF better, its more important to have a more powerful processor right? The graphics card has little to do, but i still want a good one.

So far im thinking of:
Case: Antec 900. Cause it rocks, stays cool and ill probably need the room.

No comment; I'm unfamiliar with it.

quote:Mobo: No clue, dont know enough about em.

ASUS is a good brand, but in the end it's more about the features than the brand for motherboards, provided you're not getting some generic shit from Thailand or something.

quote:Processor: Something in an Intel core 2 duo? How does AMD stack up?

I'd try for a Core 2 Duo E6600 or E6750. The E6600 is a slightly older model, 2.4GHz; the E6750 (2.66GHz) was just released in July so you may have a slightly tougher time getting it. The big advantage of the E6750 is a faster FSB (front side bus).

quote:PSU: Bigger = better?

Sure. Get a good brand; shitty brands are prone to blowing up or creating surges which can cause some issues with your hardware (i.e. fry your motherboard and everything connected to it).

quote:Ram: DDR2 seems to be the way to go. Is 1gig enough for gaming?

No. Try for 2GB at least. If you're building yourself make sure to read up on which RAM clock speeds match with your CPU; the Core 2 Duo E6600 takes PC2-4200 and (recommended) PC2-8500 (if your motherboard supports it). The E6750 takes PC2-5300. Using PC2-5300 with an E6600 actually decreases performance, even though it is a higher clock speed.

quote:I figured i would get dual 512 sticks and buy another pair later down the road. I heard that 3-4 gigs is massive overkill unless i plan to do video editing or CGI work, is that true?

Yes and no. Right now, it's true. In a couple of years, you'll really want that extra RAM for the latest games. Personally, I'd rather spend a couple of hundred bucks more now than $2000 on a new computer in two years.

quote:Hard drive: 250gigs seems to be the average nowadays. For backup purposes this techie i know reccomended getting 2 and putting them in a RAID config. It sounds like a good idea but does it slow performance?

The techie wasn't clear enough. RAID can actually do two different things, conveniently named RAID-1 and RAID-2, and since I don't use RAID I don't know which is which. One configuration uses "striping" of data in which data is written sequentially across both hard disks; you get all of your storage space this way and it makes read times somewhat faster. The downside is that if you lose one hard drive, all of your data is lost. The other duplicates data between drives, which has the advantage of being a fail-safe as you don't lose your data if you lose one hard drive. I'd recommend the former if doing a RAID config, unless you have lots of critical, difficult-to-replace data. The other is really more geared toward businesses and the like.

quote:Cooling: Probably not needed if i get the Antec, otherwise what works well?

Fans  :p

quote:
Sound card: Onboard AC97 isnt enough but I dont want some massive top of the line suround system because i dont have the room to support one anyway. Is it possible to get suround sound in a headset instead of 7+ speakers?

The definition of surround sound is with 3-5-7+ speakers, so no, it is not possible. Onboard audio is MORE than adequate unless you are a SERIOUS audio junkie. Put the money you'd put into a sound card into getting more RAM.

quote:Moniter: Id much rather have an LCD than a CRT. But i dont know anything about them, what should i be looking for?

High refresh rate, high luminosity/brightness, high contrast. Feel free to skimp a little bit on size in favor of good specs; a good 17" screen gives a much better viewing experience than a bad 20" screen.

quote:Mouse/KB: I plan to use my current set until it breaks but i plan to pass on this computer "set" to someone else. So i will probably end up buying a new set, what should i look for? Optical mice are much better than ball mice, i know that much. How reliable are wireless setups?

A regular keyboard and a standard $30 Logitech wireless laser or optical are more than sufficient. Wireless is very reliable until you break something, i.e. the wireless receiver in my case. For gaming I'd definitely say shell out the extra $10 for a wireless version, as not having a cord is awesome. If you get one of the Logitech media mice it doubles as a remote control for your music if you're into music on your computer.

quote:OS: I hear Vista is a steaming pile of shit, but DX10 is hot stuff.

Half true.

Vista is indeed a steaming pile of shit; it's the new Windows ME.

DX10 is not hot stuff because it only goes with Vista, and because Vista is a steaming pile of shit and few people actually buy it to play games, nobody is making DX10 exclusive games. Get XP.

quote:Will XP suffice? and later when it matures a bit could i install vista on a seperate hard drive altogether to have both on the same computer?

You don't want Vista. That's like asking if you should install an extra garage to keep your Honda Civic next to your Lamborghini.

quote:Graphics card: I was told that most GPUs are massive overkill. What i would like is something that can handle the newer games in full detail with no lag. Games like TF2, the newer MMos and such. DX10 is up and coming and to my knowledge there are only 2 cards capable of dx10 support and both are from nividia. Right now i have radeon 9600 pro and it is showing its age. Nvidia seems to be the way to go because of recent tech advances. I hear "unified shaders" quoted a lot but what are they exactly?

I recommend Nvidia, but to give more detailed advice I'd need to know what sort of games you play. For real-time strategy games, skimp on the GPU and invest in the CPU. For shooters, skimp on the CPU and invest in the GPU.

quote:A GeForce 8800 GTX would be awesome, or even an ultra. I wouldnt mind saving up just for the extra power. But i wouldnt bother getting them unless i actually need that power, since i still want to be ready for Dx10, would an 8800 GTS suffice? with a possible second GTS linked with SLI down the road? Or would i be better off saving for the GTX because it will give me more mileage? And of course i could always get a second.

Am i missing anything?</STRONG>

Seems you've covered most of the bases. Give more details as to how you'll be using the box so that we can provide more detailed help!

[Blackcat]

Shop around for 2GB. Seriously. I recently ordered 2GB of Corsair CAS4 DDR2-6400 for this AMD box, because it was in the same price bracket as the 1GB kits. Obviously, you'll want DDR2 timed for the Core 2 Duo, but I was surprised at the prices on 1GB DIMMs.

[ October 17, 2007: Message edited by: Blackcat ]

[Aribar Hunter]

.

[TotalPigeon]

I'm running Vista, but I guess I've been one of the lucky ones as I haven't had many problems. I know it runs things more slowly that XP, but I'm hoping a service pack or two will sort things out (when they get round to it).

As for processor, bear in mind that DF will only use one of your dual cores. But I'm usng an E6750 with a Geforce 8500GT, and I'm still getting around 160 fps at the start of a fortress, so if the individual processors run at something like that speed that'll easily do the job for you. With XP it'll probably be nearer 250  

[Btwilley]

Just FYI, if you can wait till the start of the new year you can save quite a bit. Both Intel and AMD are about to announce new bigger chipsets, and this generally means that current chips will drop in price.

[Core Xii]

quote:Originally posted by TotalPigeon:
<STRONG>As for processor, bear in mind that DF will only use one of your dual cores.</STRONG>

That's funny. I was going to rant about how there are other programs running at the same time as DF, reducing its CPU time, but then it occurred to me to actually check. So I did. DF runs 2 threads.

[sinoth]

What you're saying is probably true btwilley, but isn't very practical with the present pace of tech development.  There is always something 'right around the corner'.  Having the computer three months earlier is likely worth the $40 you might save by waiting.  Just buckle down, buy a new system, and try to stay happy with it until you repeat the process over and over and over.  Isn't this addiction grand?

[Tormy]

So why is this topic in the DF GENERAL DISCUSSION?  

[Poil]

Don't get wireless for gaming! You want a mouse that will actually cause your mouse pointer to move when your mouse does and not lag behind. Also having the batteries run low when playing on-line or in any non-pausable situation kinda sucks a lot.

quote:Originally posted by Tormy:
<STRONG>So why is this topic in the DF GENERAL DISCUSSION?    </STRONG>

Because it's about building a good computer to run DF on?

[Endiqua]

quote:Originally posted by Tormy:
<STRONG>So why is this topic in the DF GENERAL DISCUSSION?    </STRONG>

Well, it does say that you can discuss DF "any way you like" in this forum.  Besides, does anyone really care that much?  I'd hate for this place to turn into junior mod central - although I confess it would be nice to have someone around to deal with trolls so the ToadMaster doesn't have to.

[Capntastic]

I've heard DF actually does need a decent 3D card for how it does graphics, but I dunno.

Likewise, I hear having a beefy (3Ghz) single core is better than having a dual core.

quote:I confess it would be nice to have someone around to deal with trolls so the ToadMaster doesn't have to.  

I'd run for this position, seeing as how I check the forums every half hour or so when I'm home.   Though Toady deals with losers so much more amusingly than I.

[ October 17, 2007: Message edited by: Capntastic ]

[Tamren]

Its totally relevant cuz large fortresses actually require a beast of a computer to run , my 2.4ghz chugs at about 80 dwarves. Even worse if i let all the pets and livestock out of the cage i stuffed them all in.

We all can use a better computer, unless you bought one like... yesterday. Sharing the knowledge is a great thing. Long story short is i can start saving money now to do such things as support DF and buy a new computer, which is years overdue. So anyhow, specs.

Its going to be a gaming computer first and formost. It will also have to story my digicam pictures but thats easy. The games i want to play on it vary, something that can handle a copperblazes sized fortress with multiple levels, or can run unreal tournament 3 with no lag.

I dont really feel like skimping because i have the patience to save up for something top notch and by the time i do it will have become cheaper anyway. What i need to know is what order to get the stuff in? And what do i need to begin with?

[Alfador]

quote:Originally posted by Felix the Cat:
<STRONG>For real-time strategy games, skimp on the GPU and invest in the CPU. For shooters, skimp on the CPU and invest in the GPU.</STRONG>

Oh great, looks like I'm going to be spending a lot of money on BOTH. (Hooked on Dwarf Fortress AND Team Fortress.   )

Seriously, at this point I need to wait until I can be sure of a motherboard that will have the right sockets for future upgrades: eg. I have only PCI and AGP slots in mine, and now all the video cards are "PCI Express" which at the time I built mine was bleeding-edge new, and therefore I worried that they might not have all the bugs out yet.