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Author Topic: The B&W Franchise.  (Read 6090 times)

Exerosp

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The B&W Franchise.
« on: July 08, 2012, 04:07:32 pm »

I loved Black & White 2. First game wasn't that wonderful compared to the second one, but I still loved it. B&W always got these mantears appearing, and I got so attached to my creature. The second one made me attached to my town also, and I loved when the Japs and Norse helped me at the final battle. BotG felt like "Oh, same old story, but now's the time for my creature to shine" because it felt like whatever happened, it rolled down to my creature coming to save the day.

I love Lionhead because they made this, slightly getting sad because they had sold the license to EA, and that they're dumbing down the Fable Franchise but still adding some (minimal) gameplay features. I wish they could take  the title back up, maybe get it back from EA.

> The feeling when you saw your creature waking up after sleeping, the lush fields, and people giving birth on the darn street where your creature had pooped...

Edit: *Cough* Anyone else liked the B&W Franchise?
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LeoLeonardoIII

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2012, 04:12:20 pm »

I only played the first island of the first game. I thought it was pretty cool and inventive. The song that the ark-builders sang was hilarious!
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Graven

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2012, 04:21:49 pm »

I really liked parts of the first one - the whole being god thing, the physical manipulation of objects, the hidden quests, but the creature always annoyed me and I tended to neglect it. Possibly because I was what, 13 when it came out? Me and some friends of mine were really into it, got together to play and stuff. Man I had forgotten how much joy we had playing that thing.

I can't stress how much I disliked the creature management, though.

Then later on I played the second and all I saw was a glorified town building game, so I promptly stopped playing it.

I still like to occasionally install the first one and mess around with the first three levels, though! There's some odd serenity in planting trees in your village and pelting distant enemy villages with pebbles you don't seem to get in games nowadays.
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Moogie

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2012, 06:27:32 pm »

Ahh, B&W. I was a forum and multiplayer regular, back in the days of the original game. Used to play clan matches with my Disciples of Jester buddies. Good times!

I often wonder where a lot of those folk are these days. I kept in contact with a few, but there's a lot of old faces I'd love to encounter again. Though I was an annoying little teen back then, so I don't know how many of them would want to see me. :)
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Aklyon

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2012, 06:42:46 pm »

I only played the first island of the first game. I thought it was pretty cool and inventive. The song that the ark-builders sang was hilarious!
Yes it was. :D
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lordcooper

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2012, 07:31:27 pm »

The first game was absolutely wonderful IMO, many hours were spent playing with my creature and teaching it new tricks.  The sequel seemed to lose a little of the charm though.
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Aklyon

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2012, 07:39:19 pm »

The one thing besides the sailor song I remember is that after you got through the crapola of World 4 (Part 1), you had a relatively safe island again, with a pit in it that you could turn into an eternal fire. Break up some rocks, stuff the rocks in the pit (not exactly a deep pit, but thats the word I rembeber it as), light it properly, and nothing would ever put it out unless you removed multiple rocks.
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Crystalline (SG)
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Girlinhat

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2012, 08:17:14 pm »

I actually want this game.  I can't find it for the life of me.  I used to have 1 + Creature Isle but the CD has been lost to the void.

lordcooper

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2012, 08:20:26 pm »

I actually want this game.  I can't find it for the life of me.  I used to have 1 + Creature Isle but the CD has been lost to the void.

It took all of ten seconds to find it on Amazon ;)
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Vattic

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 08:41:00 pm »

A few friends were really into the first one before I got into gaming on the PC. I gave it a go years later and couldn't seem to train the creature at all. Never really played beyond the second mission because of how frustrating the training thing was.

Edit: Is there anything I should know that the game doesn't tell you? I had a friend who's creature would spread forests.
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lordcooper

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 09:04:27 pm »

Make sure you get the creature's attention before trying to demonstrate things.  Reward good behaviour and get it to repeat an action several times to be sure it learned the lesson.

I actually taught mine to set fire to rocks before hurtling them at enemies.  Good times :)
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Girlinhat

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 10:03:34 pm »

Alright.  So should I go for B&W 2 + Battle of the Gods then?

Aklyon

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2012, 10:17:15 pm »

Why not both?
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It's known as the Oppai-Kaiju effect. The islands of Japan generate a sort anti-gravity field, which allows breasts to behave as if in microgravity. It's also what allows Godzilla and friends to become 50 stories tall, and lets ninjas run up the side of a skyscraper.

Knight of Fools

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2012, 11:48:18 pm »

I enjoyed the first one very much, and played it endlessly as a kid. I remember settling several new villages in Creature Isle because that place was so dang huge. Good times.

I wasn't as impressed with the second one - The creature was what made the first game so awesome, but it lost some of its importance after that. Building towns was fun and I enjoyed it enough to play through the whole thing, but overall the AI, combat, and creature management left much to be desired compared to the first one. I never got Battle of the Gods, though. I heard that solved a lot of those problems.
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Moogie

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Re: The B&W Franchise.
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 09:52:20 am »

A few friends were really into the first one before I got into gaming on the PC. I gave it a go years later and couldn't seem to train the creature at all. Never really played beyond the second mission because of how frustrating the training thing was.

Edit: Is there anything I should know that the game doesn't tell you? I had a friend who's creature would spread forests.

Creature training requires a fair bit of finesse and fast response time. It also comes in three flavours: Action training, Battle training and Miracle training. The Leashes are also important, and I'll get to those soon.

Edit: In the course of writing this, I neglected to explain the three terms above. Basically, "Action training" is the teaching of behaviours, like what to eat, what to kill, etc. Battle training is something I haven't covered here-- basically, it's your Creature's performance in Arena fights, and ideally requires its own seperate guide. Miracle training refers to the little lightbulb percentages you see over a Creature's head when he witnesses a Miracle.


It All Starts With Instinct


All Creatures start with a basic set of instintual 'knowledge', such as "eat nearby Object when hungry" and "sleep when tired". You can create a very complex network of behaviours from this starting point. A newborn Creature will eat anything from unripened grain, to rocks, and even villagers when he gets hungry. You probably don't want him to eat anything inedible, though, so one of the first lessons you should hammer home is what he can and cannot eat. It's also a good idea to teach him to only eat when his Hunger bar is half-gone, or he'll eat so much he'll start getting fat and lazy. Something I won't cover in this guide, but which definitely exists in the game mechanics, is the difference between a Creature's "needs" and "wants". A Creature can feel hungry without a high Hunger bar, and he can feel sleepy/lazy without being fatigued. These are personality traits that develop partially on their own, and partially as a result of your training. That is why correct training procedures are important in developing a well-balanced and well-behaved Creature.


Influencing Nature

You train by giving reward/punishment in the form of scritches and slaps. The longer you do it, the higher % the reward or punishment gets, and the stronger the reinforcement of the lesson. It is a very bad idea to ever reward OR punish a behaviour to 100%. This can cause positive/negative obsession. The key is to make each lesson subtle, and build on it over time. 20-30% per incident is the best amount to use for any Creature, regardless of its Intelligence stat.

Timing is of the utmost importance when giving reward or punishment. Ideally, you want to interrupt the action in order to catch the Creature in the correct state of mind for the lesson you want to teach. It's no good waiting 3-4 seconds after he just ate one of your villagers, and now is heading off to drink from the lake; slapping him at that point will teach him "It is bad to drink from the lake". Often times, you can anticipate your Creature's actions before he even does them, due to how they sometimes 'pantomime' their desires before fulfilling them. Before eating that villager, it's likely that your creature acted 'I'm hungry' with his hands and mouth, and then started running towards his victim. That's the PERFECT time to punish, and in the future he'll be less inclined to eat villagers. This lesson can be further expanded to teach him the difference between your villagers and enemy villagers; making it okay to eat theirs, but not yours. All it takes to teach this difference is perseverance and repetition, and context (which is a word you'll soon be sick of in this post, trust me!).

But it's no good just punishing every wrong action, if your Creature has never been taught the RIGHT action. Too much punishment can make a creature less likely to listen to you. He may even rebel against the lessons you've taught. The best way to teach is by demonstrating correct actions and rewarding him when he mimics them. And repeat this process many times!

Let's say your Creature is hungry again. He knows Villagers are out of the question, but that tree looks pretty tasty. Stop! There's no need to punish him for harmless mistakes. You need your villagers, but you won't miss a single tree, right? Instead, put him on the Learning Leash (that's the brown rope one) and go find some real food, like an animal, or a pile of grain. Pick the object up, and hand it to him with a rightclick. He'll take the item, inspect it, and then probably chow down. As SOON as that food disappears, reward! But don't go overboard with it. 20-30% is fine. (If he throws it over his shoulder and takes a dump on it, use your best discretion regarding whether to reward or punish this behaviour. Personally, I've never cared where my Creature pooped, but doing it on fields will fertilize them.)


Leashes & Contextual Learning

Ideally, the learning leash is the only leash you should ever need to use. (The others will artificially influence his behaviour, so use them sparingly.) It's an extremely powerful tool, so knowing how to use it properly is a must. Here's how it works: When your Creature is leashed, his attention will be focused on everything you do. If you throw a rock, he'll want to throw rocks. If you make Disciple Villagers, he'll want to make Disciples too. If you throw a Fireball and it accidentally veers into a nearby forest and burns it down, he'll want to cast fireballs into forests. The context of a lesson is important, and using the Learning Leash, you can create a wide variety of situations and demonstrate to your Creature the appropriate context for a given action. And, when doing this, it is best to show him correct actions, and reward him for mimicing them. If you accidentally demonstrate destroying your own village, you should probably interrupt him on his way to mimicing you and give him a couple of light slaps to discourage this. Remember, punish for harmful mistakes, not harmless ones.

Always let go of the leash when doing things you don't want the Creature to watch or mimic! Having him permanently on the Learning Leash can give him all sorts of crazy and conflicting ideas. He will watch EVERYTHING you do - mistakes and all - and he does receive a tiny bit of reward from just watching while on the Leash. It is fine to have him leashed to an object OTHER than your Hand, however, as he won't learn from you in this state.

Why is it so bad to tickle/slap up to 100%? It's because a severe punishment or reward can change the context of the lesson. Going back to the familiar example with the villager: if you slapped him to 100%, he won't just learn "Eating villagers is bad". He'll also learn, to a lesser degree, any lessons related to this action, such as: "Eating is bad", or "Eating at my current hunger level is bad". You may think this isn't so bad, but what about a different situation: your Creature wanders into enemy territory and starts kicking down houses, so you reward him to 100%. Good job, you've now taught him to kick down any house he encounters, regardless of context. Context is extremely vital to teaching correct behaviour, and by rewarding in slices of 20-30%, you leave room for this lesson to be specialized. A skilled trainer will reward 20% in the correct context over several instances, so that "Kick down enemy houses" becomes a strong instinct, whilst "Kick down our houses" remains an unlikely desire. Inevitably, some reward will spill over into other contexts, but light discouragement will keep this in check.

Eventually a Creature can remember complex behaviours this way, like: "Eating when my hunger bar is above 50% is good. I should go to the shore and look for Fish when I'm hungry. I shouldn't eat when I'm full. In enemy territory, I should eat out of an enemy's Village Store, but I shouldn't eat out of my own God's stores."


Miraculous Lessons


Let's talk about Miracle training for a bit. Whenever you cast a spell in front of your Creature - and he's paying attention - you might spot a little lightbulb float up from his head, with a percentage number. (You might also spot this happening on a few other 'special' occasions, such as using the Village Store, or learning how to Dance.) Creatures will only be able to successfully cast an unlearnt Miracle at around 90%, but you should continue to demonstrate it all the way to 100% so that he can do it without failure. Simple enough, right? Now he knows the spell, but he doesn't necessarily know when or where to use it.

This is a perfect time to use the Learning Leash and do some contextual training. Leash him and cast a Rain miracle on the ground until the meter fills to 100%. During this process, he may wander off and attempt to cast the miracle on a nearby object. Even if he fails, watch carefully the action he's attempting to perform, and give him a little reward regardless of what he's casting it on (a tree, a rock, a person, anything will do). He'll begin to understand that using this miracle is a positive behaviour, but he won't yet know the correct context in which to cast it. Next, you can try casting Rain on a village's wheat fields, or on a tree sapling. He'll mimic this exact context, and you should reward him appropriately. Repeat the correct context several times and he will learn that this is the best object to perform this miracle with.


Balance, In All Things

A final word of advice. I've spoken a lot about the 'c' word, and how punishing/rewarding in small amounts is best. I've also mentioned that you should repeat lessons, so that those 20% rewards gradually build into a strong instinct. However, be aware that if you want your Creature to make choices about a certain behaviour, you need to make sure all options are taught equally. Let's make one more example for this. You're training your Lion for war. You want him to be your enemy's worst nightmare. You've taught him two offensive miracles: Fireball, and Lightning. Your majestic beast thunders into an enemy village and Fireballs the Village Totem, crippling your enemy's ability to cast miracles. You reward this behaviour.

You might have noticed by now, that after you reward your Creature for something, he will repeat the exact same action. He casts another Fireball at the Village Totem, and you reward him again. So far, you're only following the advice I've given in this guide, but this is starting to create a feedback loop. You're teaching him aggressiveness towards the enemy, which is good. You're also teaching him to use Fireballs on the enemy, which is good. You're also teaching him to use Fireballs on the Village Totem, which is good. But have you noticed yet, that he hasn't even tried casting Lightning?

A Creature can learn contextual lessons suprisingly easy, and this can make teaching him different options more difficult if you're not prepared for the speed in which he'll get THIS lesson stuck in his head. It may take a long time for him to stop throwing Fireballs and try a Lightning spell. When he does, though, you need to encourage it just the same as you did with the Fireball, and for optimal balance, you should reward him the same number of times for repeating this action.

Doing so teaches a balanced contextual lesson: "I should cast Fireballs OR Lightning on the enemy Village Totem!"

If you focus a lesson too sharply, you may find your Creature reluctant to do anything different in that context.

----------------


Phew, I think I'm about done typing now. :P This guide could be a lot better, but I just wrote it off the top of my head. This is just a short course. I've also forgotten a lot since I was heavily into B&W 'Psychology', heh. But these are the basics of becoming a pro Creature Trainer. Pokemon, eat your kiddy heart out.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 10:05:07 am by Moogie »
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