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[mesor]

Didn't say it was cheating, hell I did the same a few times to prevent people reaching the point that they could rebel against me.
It just means I avoid playing nobles with no land the majority of the time now.
Plus in this case I really hate being forced to base the ranks of people under my control on who they were born to rather then what they have earned.

[Ardas]

I did a few times it's not only on this forum.
Whomever I'm serving always set's me up to die or lose all my men when I reach a stage where I'm ready to act on my own.

Noble wouldn't work for me in this anyway because I hate the whole power being based on social status thing, I couldn't get comfortable running a fief like that.

Well, this game is all about that. Fedual system is essentially power based on your social status (word "king" being in the title). Nothing stops you from being a merc, but remember, you have to watch out for the social conventions of the setting and  the fact that nobles will treat everyone below them like crap.  If that does not sit well with you, then no one is forcing you to play.

As for being betrayed.... no doubt you saw me killing off Richard, but then at the same time there are peope like Theor and Harald whom I work with all the time and we fomred a pretty strong alliances. Maybe you were unlucky. Maybe you will find a good partner/lord/vassal that will stick to you. A lot of the game depends on judging character of others and acting just as your character would.

For example in previous YaK, I was killed by a man i was closley allied with, even though i could have prevented it. I made a mistake, but I did not have any problem with it - simply the nature of the game.

[mesor]

I know.
If it was just the chance of being betrayed I'd be ok with it I just have serious issues with social status systems.
My noble was based around treating social inferiors as equals if they had earned it or had the skills for a job but that isn't allowed in this system.
Which is odd since even in feudal times some nobles picked people for jobs based on skill not on being born with the right last name.

[Ardas]

I know.
If it was just the chance of being betrayed I'd be ok with it I just have serious issues with social status systems.
My noble was based around treating social inferiors as equals if they had earned it or had the skills for a job but that isn't allowed in this system.

No one is stopping you from treating peasants like your equals, but other lords won't treat you seriously. You don't have to beat your commoners or treat them like slaves, its simply the question of you being above them and so on.

BTW we have slavery and polygamy in our system, although neither are compulsory if you don't want to deal with them.

[mesor]

Last time I tried to base my noble off that I got told it was not allowed at all because it is against the feudal system.

Polygamy I couldn't care less thats a personal choice and the law should not have any say in it as far as I'm concerned.
I don't mind slavery either within reasonable limits.

But I won't play a noble that thinks being born with a certain names makes you more important which in this system will make it virtually impossible to run a noble.


I could dig out the old knights order I had in mind though and then I just need to find a noble I can work for who can give me a small castle or something to use as a base.

[Ardas]

Last time I tried to base my noble off that I got told it was not allowed at all because it is against the feudal system.

Polygamy I couldn't care less thats a personal choice and the law should not have any say in it as far as I'm concerned.
I don't mind slavery either within reasonable limits.

But I won't play a noble that thinks being born with a certain names makes you more important which in this system will make it virtually impossible to run a noble.

In this case we are having a pointless conversation. I am leaving shoot to decide on your app since he's a GM, but do not expect a easy ride just because you treat everyone like equals. One Ranger got into hot water for adressing prince as if he was his tavern budddy, so just that you know.

[mesor]

Thats why I'd decided not to do a noble.

I might do a knighthood order since it gives me a little more leeway but that'd depend on if I could find somebody to serve or not.

[Ghazkull]

Mesor don't forget all Medieval Knights Orders were usually sworn to the Church ( think Deutschritter,Templars etc.) although i might be wrong here but i doubt that there were historically any Knights Orders not serving the Church. This means you have to bow to the Conventions of the Church and especially if you are averese to the Social System, you are propably in the wrong place again.

Knights Orders were usually Noble-only. Thats why they were called Knights Orders. In short while you have no land(at least in the beginning) there is still the point that Social Norms apply. a Knights Order usually doesn't take in Commoners.

Next point Church: you seem to be averse against the Backstabbing stuff, but with Knights Orders it is only in the beginning straightforward: remember the Order of the Templars who were one and all branded for heresy and burned at the stake. In reality the Pope and the French King just wanted their money and wanted to take them out before they got to strong.

And finally the Lands such Orders possessed had always the same Feudal-System (almost the same among the nobles it was a different system but for the commoners it was the basically the same) as every other Feudal Nation.

In other Words:
IF you hate the Social System
IF you can't follow the Social Norm
IF you don't like the powergrabs and backstabbery
IF you want to play the Mary-Sue Knight Order in Shining Armor

play a Brigand. Or an Outlaw. Or a Pirate. Or a Haegar, or a Band of vagabounds. Or a simple goddamn peasant

These people didn't have to adhere to the above, for the rest (any kind of Knight,Noble or anybody of the Ruling Caste of Blueblood and Eccelsiarchy and the assorted Helpers in form of Mercs,Assassins whathaveyounot) applies the Feudal System with all it's social religious cultural conventions and with it all the politics and backstabbery and intrigue that brings.

That is what makes the Game for most of us interesting and since you seem to be adverse to such things, you sir, are in the wrong game. If you want to have your black and white, good versus evil battle you should open your own Medieval Game because in YAK there is no such thing as the Jolly-Good Peasant boy whose village was burned down by evil evil bandits who then set out to defeat them and became a glorious knight in shining armour who then wooed the Princess and killed some Dragon somewhere in between. Such characters have been made and they all died pretty quickly because they couldn't adhere to the Social Norms.

that were my two cents, others might see it different i just think i put the overall opinion on the table.

[mesor]

Knights orders did accept commoners though not as knights but normally in lesser rolls as either infantry or lighter cavalry and for other tasks and in extreme cases where it was deemed somebody lower born was to skilled to waste he would be promoted which works well enough for me since it still gives me the option of promoting based on merit to a certain degree.

I can follow the social norm playing as a knights order since in that situation I'm simply following orders given to me by my superior while as a noble in terms of social standing we are equals. So as a Knight I'm ok with it more or less because it's a soldiers place to obey whether he likes the orders or not.
I don't mind power grabs at all that happens in everything right down to one peasant family back stabbing another one for it's live stock so thats largely unavoidable.

Some knight hood orders were founded by a king to serve him specifically, they did still owe service to the church when requested but primarily they served the one who founded them, in this case it would be noble not king but the same basic principles applies.

Plus how would you fund playing as brigands? If I attacked the holdings of any kingdom I'd get crushed when they came after me with an army that I'd never be able to gain enough men to match and no noble would hire me.

Over all a knights order fits me pretty well, not perfectly but nothing is ever perfect and my order is close enough to make me happy and make it fun to play as.

[adwarf]

Last time I tried to base my noble off that I got told it was not allowed at all because it is against the feudal system.

Polygamy I couldn't care less thats a personal choice and the law should not have any say in it as far as I'm concerned.
I don't mind slavery either within reasonable limits.

But I won't play a noble that thinks being born with a certain names makes you more important which in this system will make it virtually impossible to run a noble.

In this case we are having a pointless conversation. I am leaving shoot to decide on your app since he's a GM, but do not expect a easy ride just because you treat everyone like equals. One Ranger got into hot water for adressing prince as if he was his tavern budddy, so just that you know.

It was also partially due to you charging me Ardas Though keep in mind, I lived through what your character wanted me to die in :3

[thatkid]

How many assasins/rogues do we have now? not ot prevent you from playing mesor, but the emphasis of the game is on feudal relations, not subterfuge and assasinations.

E:BTW guys, look at this table (LOOK AT IT! NAO) and tell me if it agrees with your current army stats.

I'm not even on this list.

So of course it doesn't agree with my current army stats. :|

[Tiruin]

May I retcon training in Logistics for Spring?

[micelus]

How many assasins/rogues do we have now? not ot prevent you from playing mesor, but the emphasis of the game is on feudal relations, not subterfuge and assasinations.

E:BTW guys, look at this table (LOOK AT IT! NAO) and tell me if it agrees with your current army stats.

Well that clears up quite a bit. Perfectly fine.

[Shootandrun]

May I retcon training in Logistics for Spring?

Yes. Post it on the thread and precise it should have been done during the winter, and we'll roll it.

[Sheb]

I asked for a training here.