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Poll

Should we start fresh with version 1.4.6? (Regenerate map, etc)

Yes!
- 14 (93.3%)
No!
- 1 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: December 25, 2012, 01:15:00 pm


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Author Topic: Forsaken's Gaming Servers  (Read 288269 times)

Girlinhat

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #870 on: September 10, 2012, 07:06:30 pm »

Once you've disabled IC2 bronze crafting, then you could add a crafting recipe to turn IC2 into RP with shapeless crafting.  Although that may involve client mods since it's a new recipe, but at the VERY least it'd be easy to make a trade machine that converts ingots.  It's still not a huge deal though, it's only a stacking issue for the few people who bother to make blocks of bronze.  And if we're using certain mods, the Carpenter can let you crate up the bars into the same density.

forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #871 on: September 10, 2012, 07:15:20 pm »

All true. Now if only these mods would hurry up and update! :P
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forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #872 on: September 10, 2012, 07:58:13 pm »

More success! I have an economy handler plugin working WITH the item-based economy. If I give someone cash or take cash from them, it will automatically make change in their inventory/spawn items to make the difference. This means it should now be compatible with any bukkit plugin which uses an economy via a Vault hook.
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Akhier the Dragon hearted

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #873 on: September 10, 2012, 08:44:39 pm »

   I don't know what I think about doing things like disabling UU and making mining harder to automate or whatever. On one hand it would make resources be worth more but on the other hand mining is not exactly the funnest thing ever. I think I side with resources being a cheap commodity so we can build big. Also resources barring diamonds and a couple similar things are not really that hard to get just tedious, the hard part is the crafting and placing part. But whatever happens happens.
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alway

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #874 on: September 10, 2012, 09:43:30 pm »

mining is not exactly the funnest thing ever. I think I side with resources being a cheap commodity so we can build big. Also resources barring diamonds and a couple similar things are not really that hard to get just tedious, the hard part is the crafting and placing part. But whatever happens happens.
This. Grinding up the same tech tree over and over just for the sake of grinding up said tech tree gets really old after the second time. Let alone the 10th time.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #875 on: September 10, 2012, 10:30:23 pm »

You can't take away lolquarries, I need my lolquarries.

Frame quarries also have upkeep, having to restart Minecraft every time it crashes the client :P

I would also prefer resources being cheap, since mining is not the most entertaining thing in the game to do. Whereas building big automated resource collection and processing machines is.
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Sergius

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #876 on: September 10, 2012, 11:43:27 pm »

Honestly if I have to mine all the marble to build my mansion by hand I swear I'm going to snap.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #877 on: September 11, 2012, 03:42:19 am »

What happened to my bay12? Balking at the slightest sign of difficulty?

With an economic system, especially one where money is tied directly to items dug out of the ground, allowing someone to essentially 'afk-mine' is out of the question. As I said, the IC2 miner would still be available. It mines every valuable ore in a 9x9 space but requires time and lots of energy. Isn't that good enough? And if you don't want to mine, earn money some other way and buy the resources you need from others. I was also going to put in something like McMMO which increases your mining skill as you go, gaining perks like double drops. You can get enchanted picks to get more drops too, further increasing your yield. Quarries aren't the end-all of mining tech, they're just the laziest method and they cause ridiculous inflation.

I'll still be leaving the old server up anyway if you want ezmode anyway.

Edit:

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« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:15:01 am by forsaken1111 »
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alexandertnt

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #878 on: September 11, 2012, 04:44:22 am »

The problem is not that mining is difficult, the problem is that its actually increadibly easy, a complete non-challenge. Building self-sufficient resource processing center's and mines is half the fun.

Removing Quarries would not make the game harder, only consume more time.

Personally, I am not for McMMO. One of the reasons I like minecraft is that investment of time gets pseudo-physical things (houses, contraptions). Something that is "yours". Skills, however, are not dynamic in any such way. They are an integer that can do only one thing with the investment of time. You can do nothing interesting with them. (I am not a fan of MMO's)

If all this happens anyway, will their still be redpower frames?
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
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forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #879 on: September 11, 2012, 05:14:25 am »

The problem is not that mining is difficult, the problem is that its actually increadibly easy, a complete non-challenge. Building self-sufficient resource processing center's and mines is half the fun.

Removing Quarries would not make the game harder, only consume more time.

If all this happens anyway, will their still be redpower frames?
I never said I was removing quarries completely, I said they would be sold in a shop and not freely crafted and that they'd be far more expensive that normal. Frame equipment too, will be sold in an admin shop. Basically anything that can wreak utter havoc on the economy will be controlled. You won't be able to generated a billion UU matter with a solar array and a mass fab, you will be able to buy UU matter from an admin shop. And as I said, if you still want ezmode you can always play the other server... whichever one suits you. Quarries and frame quarries are much better in a singleplayer setting, multiplayer games with an economy should require some player effort to get the resources.

I was thinking about UU matter again today. I may not have to disable any of the recipes actually, just price it at or above the highest resource cost so the point of buying it is convenience (transmutable to any resource) rather than lolmoney. 9 UU matter makes a diamond, so I could price it at 1/9th of a diamond's worth in the economy and it should be fine.

Say a Diamond is 1500☼ for example(just an arbitrary value)... I could safely price UU matter at 170☼ because 170*9=1530 which is more than 1530, no gain in monies by making a diamond.
Four UU matter makes 2 gold ore, which is 4 gold ingots after processing. If a gold ingot is 90☼(again, arbitrary and may change) then 4 ingots is worth 360 while four UU matter is 680. Again, no monetary gain.

Doing that would make UU matter only useful for its mutability and for crafting iridium, rather than making each mass fabricator a free resource/money dispenser.

As I said though, this is still all up in the air pending testing.

This way powerful/overpowered items will go to people with an investment in the server who I know(hope) will not use them in a silly manner, like making massive quarry pits right next to town for example or blowing up half the map with EE items. (Assuming I even allow EE items, once EE updates...)

Personally, I am not for McMMO. One of the reasons I like minecraft is that investment of time gets pseudo-physical things (houses, contraptions). Something that is "yours". Skills, however, are not dynamic in any such way. They are an integer that can do only one thing with the investment of time. You can do nothing interesting with them. (I am not a fan of MMO's)

Now I really do not get your point about the McMMO thing. All it does is add skills which increase as you perform an action. You don't even have to participate, and they only grant you positive abilities. There is no downside, no catch. You mine and you gain mining skill and you might mine more than normal. You have lost nothing over the vanilla minecraft, its just a way to reward people who mine a lot, by increasing their base yield over time.

Another thing it does is allow you to use axes in combat, which perform differently from swords, and lets you get better at unarmed combat too.

Skills don't need to be dynamic, they are simply a reward. McMMO was just an example though, there are several systems which work for this. Another one lets you earn skill points over time and allocate them as you see fit, rather than gaining skill in the action you are performing.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #880 on: September 11, 2012, 06:18:36 am »

Oh, well if Quarries are still acquirable and don't cost an absurd amout, thats fine for me.

In regards to McMMO, If something enables an action to get easier (for example some skill like mining), than the product of that skill is devalued as it is easier to aquire. To get significantly meaningful yield from mining, it would then require leveling this skill. So the downside that if you have not leveled the skill, your mining is less valuable then it would have been without this system.

But how long would it take to "level up" these skills? My initial reaction was due to the MMO in the name - It leaves a bad taste. Perhaps the required leveling time would not be too long?

(Also im all for disabling UU matter (Or at least changing how trivially easy it is to aquire), it did feel a bit like "I won Minecraft now!")
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #881 on: September 11, 2012, 06:47:56 am »

Oh, well if Quarries are still acquirable and don't cost an absurd amout, thats fine for me.

In regards to McMMO, If something enables an action to get easier (for example some skill like mining), than the product of that skill is devalued as it is easier to aquire. To get significantly meaningful yield from mining, it would then require leveling this skill. So the downside that if you have not leveled the skill, your mining is less valuable then it would have been without this system.

But how long would it take to "level up" these skills? My initial reaction was due to the MMO in the name - It leaves a bad taste. Perhaps the required leveling time would not be too long?

(Also im all for disabling UU matter (Or at least changing how trivially easy it is to aquire), it did feel a bit like "I won Minecraft now!")
You... I don't get you.

You want quarries despite the fact that they massively devalue materials via AFK mining. Yet you do not want a skill-based plugin which takes time and effort to increase your mining yield because it devalues materials? Are you similarly against macerators? They double your mining yield for no real cost at all.

The leveling rate for the skill is configurable, and for example the mining yield for McMMO by default tops out at double the normal yield so you'd get 2 iron ore for every 1 'natural' ore broken. (No, it doesn't work on any placed by a player, no infinite ore circles) I'd have to gauge the leveling rate in testing, I haven't even implemented any leveling system yet.


What I do have planned and partially implemented:

1. Item-based Economy. Your cash is not safe in some hammerspace wallet. Your money is tied to actual items in your inventory. Want to stockpile a lot of money? You'd better build a vault and protect it well(see #2). Implemented (Item values still subject to change pending testing)

2. Raiding. Town- and Nation-based raiding. Hate a rival town for their ridiculously affluent members? Have a grudge against a specific player? Declare /war on them and raid the town! Loot, pillage, destroy! I'm still working out the details on this, but I certainly want to have some sort of raiding/war system in place. Planned

3. Open-area PVP. The area between towns is wild and unsafe. Take care when traversing the wilderness(especially if transporting cash...), as unscrupulous characters could lie in wait! Planned

4. Skyblock Survival world. Each player gets his own island to build on, but all islands exist in the same world. Inventory is saved and switched when you enter the skyblock world so you can't just bring in lots of materials from the Datum. Entry/exit are accomplished via commands. Planned

5. Dungeon Worlds. Each with a specific difficulty and matching rewards, all swarming with enemies! When in a dungeon world, you cannot break or place blocks. Entry/exit are accomplished via commands or portals. There may be other restrictions in each specific world. (I.E. You probably can't use Quantum Armor in there because what's the point?) Implemented

6. Mob Arena. Single or cooperative arenas which spawn waves of mobs with rewards for surviving each round and a final reward for completing a set. Death will place you in an observation area where you can see the rest of your team's progress or exit and cash out. Entry/exit are accomplished via commands. Planned

7. PVP Arena. I'll have a couple of different PVP modes for the PVP arenas, and will reward cash on kills and special rewards for wins. Planned

8. Skill/leveling system. Not sure on the details for this yet, pending testing. Planned

More to come, but that is the basic outline I'm working from.
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alexandertnt

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #882 on: September 11, 2012, 07:14:05 am »

You... I don't get you.

You want quarries despite the fact that they massively devalue materials via AFK mining. Yet you do not want a skill-based plugin which takes time and effort to increase your mining yield because it devalues materials? Are you similarly against macerators? They double your mining yield for no real cost at all.

It was moreso the method of aquiring the resources, that is at least for me Quarries are more fun to build then leveling some stat. The example given in regards to reduced value from resources because of McMMO was only to demonstrate that by adding such a system, it would still lower the value of normal mining, and thus strongly require the need to level it up (That is, I was against lowering the value of normal unleveled mining if manual mining is required, quarries lower the value of resources but remove the need for manual mining entirely).

But since Quarries are supposed to be acquirable in some form (I missed that part in my first post) then it is mostly a non-issue now.
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

The Darkling Wolf

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #883 on: September 11, 2012, 07:15:47 am »

McMMO won't really lower the value of mining, it will increase the value of people who specialise in mining.

Sure, I coul grind up to mining level 200, or I could pay a friend a few hundred Urists to go mining for me. Also known as, Economics. People with skills get paid to use those skills, sure, Friend A is an amazing miner, but I can get two trees worth of lumber from every tree I cut down, so maybe we make an agreement, where I supply him with logs and he supplies me with ores.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Forsaken's B12 Minecraft Servers
« Reply #884 on: September 11, 2012, 07:20:13 am »

McMMO won't really lower the value of mining, it will increase the value of people who specialise in mining.

Sure, I coul grind up to mining level 200, or I could pay a friend a few hundred Urists to go mining for me. Also known as, Economics. People with skills get paid to use those skills, sure, Friend A is an amazing miner, but I can get two trees worth of lumber from every tree I cut down, so maybe we make an agreement, where I supply him with logs and he supplies me with ores.
That is exactly the idea behind the leveling system. Its designed to reward your efforts and allow you to specialize or (eventually) level up every skill though that would take quite a while by default.

Do you guys have any questions about anything I posted as planned or implemented?
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