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[Loud Whispers]

That's all fantastic, but can we play Dwarf Fortress on them?

More importantly, can they be recreated within DF?

Can you use a Quantum printer to print Quantum computers that play DF?

[MaximumZero]

That's all fantastic, but can we play Dwarf Fortress on them?

More importantly, can they be recreated within DF?

Can you use a Quantum printer to print Quantum computers that play DF?

Quantum printers!? I have to call my boss.

[Drakale]

Here is an amazing high resolution view of the Rocknest site by Curiosity's cameras.

http://mars.nasa.gov/multimedia/interactives/billionpixel/index.cfm?image=PIA16919&view=cyl

When seen like this, mars colonization do not seem like an impossible dream anymore, it's just a matter of time.

[Sheb]

And a matter of "what's the point?".

[Frumple]

Point? Sooner we can start loosening our dependency on a single planet, the better off we are, flat out. Gives us some more room to slow down the fuckery we pull on the one we've got, as well as a potential out (or at least partial safety net/assistance possibility) in case of large scale disaster. From a survival point of view, the more baskets we can put our eggs in, the better.

[10ebbor10]

A multi billion basket, which hangs by a thread from the original one.

I'm all for space exploration, but there's a time and a place for everything.

[Sirus]

...So when is that time and place? I'm with Frumple, the sooner we start laying roots on other balls of rock (or start floating in gas clouds, I'm not picky), the better. As messed up as humanity can be sometimes, I'm quite fond of it and would rather not see the whole lot of us wiped out by a single Texas-sized rock from space.

[Criptfeind]

I think the point made was that with our current technology, a mars colony would not save the human race if the earth was wiped clean. All  it would mean is that the last humans would die of starvation or asphyxiation instead of meteorite.

That quite frankly, it doesn't actually help at all with your goal saving the human race from disaster, and in fact it would cost so much money that could conceivably be spent elsewhere it could actually hurt your goal.

If you have a actual goal. IE: "Preserve the human race!" you can't just take a action that sounds cool and say "COOL DO IT BECAUSE THIS GOAL!" you have to actually think and see if it will help you reach your goal.

[Another]

1. Send explorer robots until we know pretty much about Mars geology.
2. Send robots that will bootstrap basic industry from mostly local resources until they are able to make more of themselves on-site with at most only very lightweight components imported from the Earth.
3. Construct radiation-shielded habitats and greenhouses with those robots.
4. Only at this point manned flight to Mars would make practical sense.

[10ebbor10]

...So when is that time and place? I'm with Frumple, the sooner we start laying roots on other balls of rock (or start floating in gas clouds, I'm not picky), the better. As messed up as humanity can be sometimes, I'm quite fond of it and would rather not see the whole lot of us wiped out by a single Texas-sized rock from space.

When we're willing to invest money in space to be able to actually finish this decently.

The current Mars projects are almost certainly going to result in disaster, probably involving the death of quite a few people.

1. Send explorer robots until we know pretty much about Mars geology.
2. Send robots that will bootstrap basic industry from mostly local resources until they are able to make more of themselves on-site with at most only very lightweight components imported from the Earth.
3. Construct radiation-shielded habitats and greenhouses with those robots.
4. Only at this point manned flight to Mars would make practical sense.

1. Check
2. Mostly impossible
3. Trivial

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Ebbor, the current professional Mars projects are planned for around 20 years from now. They're not even out of the planning stage.

[Another]

2. Electrochemically smelting plain carbon steel from what can be readily found on the surface is easy with the right equipment. Copper minerals in sufficient concentrations need finding but probably exist. Al and Si containing stuff is known and so low-quality photovoltaic panels can be produced from mostly Martian resources.

Advanced electronics is not something that could be produced without really huge and diverse supporting industry. Thankfully microchips are really light-weight.

[10ebbor10]

Ebbor, the current professional Mars projects are planned for around 20 years from now. They're not even out of the planning stage.

20 years really isn't a long time in space development. Especially not with the 2 year flight time. The Chinese, which is the only space agency I actually see reaching Mars, isn't planning a permanent colony before 2060.

Also, Mars One is aiming for 2016 for the first, automated, mission. Won't call them professional though. There is a more realistic mission aiming for a touch and go in 2018.

2. Electrochemically smelting plain carbon steel from what can be readily found on the surface is easy with the right equipment. Copper minerals in sufficient concentrations need finding but probably exist. Al and Si containing stuff is known and so low-quality photovoltaic panels can be produced from mostly Martian resources.

Advanced electronics is not something that could be produced without really huge and diverse supporting industry. Thankfully microchips are really light-weight.

Martian solar dust storm. For several months, solar power drops to 1% or less of normal levels. All your equipment freezes to death. It's strange that many missions just ignore it. I mean, it doesn't happen often but it's very dangerous.

Also, martian dust is really annoying. It creeps into every creak, and setting up an isolated environement on another planet is hard.

Spoiler: About Martian Dust (click to show/hide)

Mars One has designed the Mars mission to fully exploit, wherever possible, solar power generation. The mission design makes use of ‘thin film’ solar panels, which are extremely light and can be easily transported.

Solar power however has a few disadvantages: during night time, the energy must come from batteries; and during dust storms, the solar panels will yield less energy.

The solar panel system used by Mars One will deliver enough energy to power all critical systems during a dust storm.

Non-critical systems however will be shut down or restricted, to save energy:
•Oxygen and water will come primarily from the storage tanks (not from powered extraction)
•Dirty water will be stored (for later recycling, when full power is available)
•Oxygen from the storage tanks will be consumed
•Greenhouse lighting will be dimmed
•EVAs will be limited to emergency repairs
•Rover operation will be limited

The astronauts will have enough water stored for 15 days of normal water usage, and for 150 days if usage is limited. The oxygen storage tanks will contain enough oxygen for 60 days. Because electrical power is so critical for the survival of the crew, extra safety margins will be built into the power usage profiles for dust storms.

FYI: The Martian dust storms that endangered Spirit and Opportunity lasted 61 days.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

20 years really isn't a long time in space development. Especially not with the 2 year flight time. The Chinese, which is the only space agency I actually see reaching Mars, isn't planning a permanent colony before 2060.

20 years is plenty long. NASA went from having not much more than a plan and several test rocket failures to walking on the moon in only 10 years.

And the Chinese as the only ones to reach Mars? Are you kidding me? Not NASA, not ESA, not RFSA, but CNSA? Amongst the major national space programs, I'd put China in last place. They may have done an independent manned launch, but that doesn't mean they're better. Space needs to be a cooperative venture, and CNSA is not very cooperative compared to the others. Not to mention their total mission count is fairly low.

NASA has suffered severe funding cuts, but they're not out of the game by any means. Soon, when people start talking about walking on Mars in more than theoretical terms, they will have public support that will make the Apollo program look meager in comparison and cause politicians across the entire political spectrum to drool with envy at whomever holds the White House when it happens. At worst, NASA is going to get second place for walking on Mars.

Speculating on permanent colonies is probably a bit too far in the future for accurate predictions.

[kaian-a-coel]

My bet is on a NASA/ESA cooperative mission within 40 years. If the world as we know it hasn't collapsed by then.