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Author Topic: SCIENCE, Gravitational waves, and the whole LIGO OST!  (Read 515088 times)

Reelya

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1605 on: June 24, 2014, 12:49:17 pm »

That book by Lee Smolin, is the exact opposite of what you should be producing as evidence that the discovery of the Higgs Boson is meaningless.

Lee Smolins book, The Trouble with Physics critiques String Theory because it makes no testable predictions. That's the complaint in the linked book.

But, the Standard Model predicted the existence of the Higgs Boson, and the discovery of the Higgs Boson tests the prediction - which is precisely what Lee Smolin is criticizing in that book - the lack of testable predictions for String Theory.

So, it's ironic to bring that book out as backing for the argument that testing predictions is pointless.

Putnam

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1606 on: June 24, 2014, 12:58:58 pm »

EDIT: Okay, you've listed an actual problem. Good. I don't actually have the physics knowledge to argue about that one. How does the discovery of the Higgs Boson exacerbate that, though?

It's not even right; the standard model doesn't include neutrino masses, and neutrinos are only one of many elementary particles. Others (such as all fermions) have masses just fine.

MonkeyHead

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1607 on: June 24, 2014, 01:12:41 pm »

Does the verification of the Higgs need to change anything? You may as well ask "Why climb a mountain?"

How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?

Sergarr

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1608 on: June 24, 2014, 01:21:38 pm »

Does the verification of the Higgs need to change anything? You may as well ask "Why climb a mountain?"

How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?
It is not futile, it is just not as game-changing as the Higgs hype would led you to believe.

The problems like "we have to invent special procedures to avoid getting infinite values everywhere" still exist, both in quantum mechanics AND in general relativity. More so if you try to combine those.
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10ebbor10

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1609 on: June 24, 2014, 01:25:24 pm »

Nothing is as game changing as the press would let you believe. Just a problem with the media.
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miauw62

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1610 on: June 24, 2014, 01:59:38 pm »

\
How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?
^^^^^^^^
This this this.
The only reason you need justify gathering more knowledge is wanting to gather more knowledge.
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

10ebbor10

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1611 on: June 24, 2014, 02:10:56 pm »

That sounds like it could be the Motto of the NSA.
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miauw62

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1612 on: June 24, 2014, 02:11:29 pm »

That sounds like it could be the Motto of the NSA.
That sounds like something Hitler would say :P
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Sergarr

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1613 on: June 24, 2014, 03:31:00 pm »

\
How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?
^^^^^^^^
This this this.
The only reason you need justify gathering more knowledge is wanting to gather more knowledge.

“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.”

― George Sand
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miauw62

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1614 on: June 24, 2014, 03:32:52 pm »

Well, you are searching knowledge for the sake of truth, aren't you?
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Quote from: NW_Kohaku
they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the raving confessions of a mass murdering cannibal from a recipe to bake a pie.
Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Putnam

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1615 on: June 24, 2014, 04:02:29 pm »

\
How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?
^^^^^^^^
This this this.
The only reason you need justify gathering more knowledge is wanting to gather more knowledge.

“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.”

― George Sand

That quote is meaningless and quotes don't carry arguments whatsoever, so come up with something better.

Sergarr

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1616 on: June 24, 2014, 04:06:51 pm »

\
How is knowing more about the universe in any way futile?
^^^^^^^^
This this this.
The only reason you need justify gathering more knowledge is wanting to gather more knowledge.

“Art for art's sake is an empty phrase. Art for the sake of truth, art for the sake of the good and the beautiful, that is the faith I am searching for.”

― George Sand

That quote is meaningless and quotes don't carry arguments whatsoever, so come up with something better.
Wanting "something" for the sake of having "something" is on the same level of logic as proclaiming that the God exists because he must exist.
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Putnam

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1617 on: June 24, 2014, 04:11:16 pm »

That's a strawman; knowledge is useful. It's like wanting money for the sake of having money. You don't know when you're going to need money, but having plenty of money around is useful just in case you will need it. The same is true for knowledge. Knowledge isn't just "something", it's the very foundation of our understanding of reality, prevents deaths, cures starvation, treats cancer and sends people to the Moon.

Sergarr

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1618 on: June 24, 2014, 04:43:22 pm »

Whatever.
Let's just drop this argument, it is stupid.

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Putnam

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Re: SCIENCE, the Higgs, and everything else!
« Reply #1619 on: June 24, 2014, 04:58:16 pm »

No, screw that, anti-science is the single biggest problem the world faces and I will not stand for something even resembling it.
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