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[MonkeyHead]

If the universe is 13.8 billion years old, what existed before then? Any guesses?

It wasnt so much as there being no universe before then, it was more a case of whatever did exist before then is incompatible with the way that modern physics models reality - in as much as spacetime makes no sense in a singulairty. Whever existed would have been very quantumly weird to allow what exists now to have formed.

[Putnam]

The universe started 13.8 billion years ago, but so did time. There was no "before" because there was no causality.

[BFEL]

The universe started 13.8 billion years ago, but so did time. There was no "before" because there was no causality.

So far as we know.

We cannot tell what happened before the universe for obvious reasons. Or if there WAS a before.

Well there had to be SOME force that created the matter and energy that was locked up in the big bang, so either we have physics wrong and just don't know how to fuck over conservation of mass/energy ((which is quite possible)) or at some point before the BB physics was just THAT DIFFERENT. Though, y'know, theories.

[10ebbor10]

Nope, there's no need for any force. Physics not applying is a real possibility.

[BFEL]

Nope, there's no need for any force. Physics not applying is a real possibility.

Well I dunno about "not applying"
There had to be SOME force or event or ACTION to create the REACTION of the universe.
I can see physics being DIFFERENT, but it just seems weird...ok maybe its possible, but it makes my brain hurt, and not many things do that.

[10ebbor10]

Nope. As far as we know, time started at the Big Bang. It's perfectly possible that causality didn't exist.

[Descan]

Explaining things-before-the-Big-Bang is kind of like trying to explain the colour of a kaleidoscope pattern to a blind person, by touch.

Without using words. Or eyes. Touch is how you have to explain it, and touch is how you have to get the visual pattern.

You can see why it'd be difficult

[10ebbor10]

Bad analogy. With a significant amount of neurochurgery knowledge, and creative touching parts of the brain, you can explain the kaleidoscope.

Going before the big bang is pretty much impossible however.

[BFEL]

Well, lets put it this way.

Imagine the most mindscrewy thing possible.

Now forget it, because other universes and the... stuff the universe is expanding into could be infinitely more mindscrewy. Or it could be identical. At present, we don't know. We could have stuff where MC Escher would have looked normal.

Ah Escher, the original MC.
Way before that Hammer guy.

[Descan]

Bad analogy. With a significant amount of neurochurgery knowledge, and creative touching parts of the brain, you can explain the kaleidoscope.

Going before the big bang is pretty much impossible however.

How do you touch a visual pattern?

[MonkeyHead]

Duh, with your eyeballs, obviously.

[Descan]

* Descan invades Wales with a Mounted Highlander regiment.

[Mr. Strange]

* Descan invades Wales with a Mounted Highlander

I know I read it wrong the first time, but it's just better this way.

[10ebbor10]

Bad analogy. With a significant amount of neurochurgery knowledge, and creative touching parts of the brain, you can explain the kaleidoscope.

Going before the big bang is pretty much impossible however.

How do you touch a visual pattern?

You touch/stimulate those neurons in the brain responsible for colors, duh.

[Descan]

But you need to know what the visual pattern is first, and you can't do that if your only method of attaining that information for yourself is by touch.