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Author Topic: A crash course in military?  (Read 4873 times)

Mohawk_Bravo

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A crash course in military?
« on: July 01, 2012, 02:26:47 pm »

So I'm still fairly new to Dwarf Fortress and on my fifth or sixth fort, but I'm noticing that most of my forts fail due to a weak military. I've been experimenting with drawbridges, traps, and trenches, and all, but I never have any dwarves able to fight. Is there any tips on military? How to train? Equipment? Or anything like that? All my fortress that fell have been due to the first or second goblin siege I run into. So, could anyone please give me a quick crash course? Thanks in advance.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2012, 02:46:12 pm »

A good place to start.

After that, just fiddle around and see what works for you. Personally I'd say you should start off with at least 10% of your fort in the military, in 3 man squads set for 2 of them to train all year, if you're just getting the hang of it.
Marksdwarf (and military micro/macro in general) is a pain to get the grasp of, but comes easy as you mess around with it. I'd definitely recommend trying out pathing designations combined with station orders to try and get your Dwarves to fight where you want them to.

Graebeard

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 02:47:46 pm »

NINJA!

I was going to point to the Wiki entry as well.

I don't really make use of video tutorials, but I'd bet others on here can point out some useful ones.
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krenshala

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2012, 02:48:00 pm »

1 - From the military screen, create a new squad.  If you don't like the name, delete the squad and create it again.  Don't worry about the uniform for the squad at this point.

2 - Once you have the squad name you want, switch to the uniform screen. By default you get three: leather armor with random weapons, leather armor with missile weapons, and metal armor with melee weapons.

3 - Create a new uniform for training. Give it shields and the training weapon of your choice (you want swordsdwarves, select training swords). Alternately, you can go straight to a metal (or leather) armor with real weapon uniform, since sparring isn't real combat any more.

4 - Switch to the equipment screen, then press {U} to specify the uniform the selected squad is assigned.  Select your new training uniform (shield and training weapon), and press SHIFT+ENTER to assign that uniform to the entire squad (pressing just ENTER assigns it to only the selected squad position/member).  You can use this to change the uniform of an active squad, though they won't break combat to change gear, so this is best used when they are just standing around (you want your hammer dorfs to take up the cross bow? switch them to the crossbow wielding uniform and watch them all change gear).

5 - If you don't already have them, make wooden shields and (training) weapons to match the training uniform.  If you picked a uniform with armor, make sure you make some of that as well - at the least a helm and chain shirt.

6 - Build a weapon rack, armor stand or container (I typically use a wooden chest or stone coffer) and designate it as a training area for the squad.

7 - Pick two to four dwarves to be your new recruits.  You may want to pick someone decent for the first position, as that will be your Militia Commander if you haven't already designated one via the {n}obles screen.

8 - Activate the squad {s} -> select the squad -> {t} to change from Inactive to Active/Training

9 - The selected dwarves should run over, grab their shield and (training) weapon and begin training.  In six to twelve months they will be really good. After 18 to 24 months of training at least some of them should be approaching, if not at, legendary.

10 - Split these dwarves up, each in charge of their own squad, assign an actual metal armor uniform with appropriate weapon and enjoy the carnage.

This leaves out quite a bit of nit-picky detail and various options, but should give the general idea of the steps that work for me.  A small starting group should level up teacher and begin sparring fairly quickly. Once they have reached Skilled, they should be able to teach raw recruits in a shorter time than they themselves learned it, earning even more teacher skill, which improves things further.  I typically use four dwarves, others say three gets faster results.  I think the individual traits affect this, however.  Ten dwarves with 4 or 5 sets of "train (2)" orders for the squad should work as well, though I don't remember the steps to set up the multiple orders at the moment.
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Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2012, 03:29:07 pm »

Alright...
1. Make two minecarts and a track that has ramps leading down ramps towards a long, straight track in the middle.
2. Have two hauling routes, one at each end of the track. Give each a minecart.
3. Drop in two dwarves, one on each end. Make sure that they are the only people who can reach the minecarts.
4. Have the routes ride the minecarts towards each other.
That's your course in crashing!

...

Is that not what you meant? Okay, let me help you. This took a while, I hope I'm not ninja'd by someone else's guide.
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weenog

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2012, 03:42:41 pm »

Never think traps, bridges or military... think traps, bridges and military.  Maybe you don't have the wherewithal to make traps that don't suck.  That's fine, make traps that suck, and make plenty of them.  A severed weapon hand from a one-shot weapon trap which got lucky will make an enemy soldier safer and easier to kill.  Maybe you don't have spotters or fine-tuned automation, and the bridges don't close in time to keep out everybody.  That's fine too, if they keep out somebody.  10 moderately skilled militia dwarves will probably get slaughtered going up against 60 moderately skilled goblin soldiers, but they stand a decent chance against 8 moderately skilled goblin soldiers 4 times, with rest breaks in between (and by the time you've killed half their number the siege is most likely broken or about to break).

What I'm trying to say is your soldiers shouldn't be your only line of defence, but they should be one of the last lines of defence, hanging back and taking out enemies who have already been softened up and scattered by your other defences.  Maybe it's dishonourable, some might even say cowardly, but it's the pragmatic way to fight.  Straight head-on collisions are for suckers.  When in doubt, cheat.
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Panando

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2012, 05:23:58 pm »

If you want a head on collision between freight trains type crash course then try Fortress Defence mod. You'll get sieges within the first year (of very weak enemies, which even unarmed untrained dwarves can often take on) and will probably die by year 3, but it's great to practise military, necessity being the mother of invention and all.
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Triaxx2

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2012, 06:28:05 pm »

Also don't rely just on melee dorfs. Lining an entrance hall with fortifications and marks dorfs will vastly enhance it's meat grinder capabilities. Additional, non-surface connected dorf pill boxes, consisting of a 3x3 inside, with a stair and bolt stockpiles will allow them to engage the enemy relatively safely, as long as you remember to carve a moat around the box so enemies don't just run up and shoot into the box. Also remember to roof it over. Otherwise fliers will get through. Build the outside from constructed walls, and then carve fortifications in. It will allow you to save some stone on the roof since they'll have an upper floor as part of them.

Don't forget also to scatter some dorf pillboxes around. 1 stair in the middle and a 3x3 stone box, with one side being a bridge. The other end of a tunnel should connect with a door. Both the bridge and door should connect to the same lever. They operate on opposing wavelengths, so an open bridge is a closed door and vice versa. To launch an attack you prime the tunnel by ordering your dorfs to station inside s>(squadletter)>m select target. Flip the lever, and order the dorfs to attack. The enemies will tend to try and attack, but not only can your dorfs retreat back through the box, but then you can flip the lever again and send reinforcements down the pipe to finish the gobbos. Repeat as needed. Stud it with weapon and cave traps if you want. Serrated Discs and spear
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Mohawk_Bravo

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2012, 09:01:40 pm »

Okay, thanks guys. i knew most of this but some of it was very helpful (especially Shift Enter to asign all to a uniform). I've got four dwarves and set the minimum training to four, but now all they do is stand around waiting for or participating in dodging demonstrations. Is there any way to get around that? I've got them training axes (as I lucked on an iron rich area this time), but all they do is practice dodging.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2012, 09:17:56 pm »

The CFAM. See my post. (There's two other options, one cheaty and one a poor, but Fun, choice.)
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krenshala

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2012, 09:21:22 pm »

Okay, thanks guys. i knew most of this but some of it was very helpful (especially Shift Enter to asign all to a uniform). I've got four dwarves and set the minimum training to four, but now all they do is stand around waiting for or participating in dodging demonstrations. Is there any way to get around that? I've got them training axes (as I lucked on an iron rich area this time), but all they do is practice dodging.
They will do demonstrations until they are all about equal in skill, then start sparring.  If they are all noobs with, basically, zero skill the sparring will start soon.  If one or more dorphs have the weapon skill for what you've assigned them already, they are probably leading the demonstrations, so the sparring will start soon.  If one or more dorphs have a different weapon skill, they may train dodging, wrestling, biting, or whatever they happen to be good at before the sparring starts.  In the long run its all good; in the short, if they aren't sparing soon enough for your taste, split the group up into squads of 3 or set enough training (min 2) orders to have everyone training at once.  At least some with them be sparing.
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Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2012, 09:28:34 pm »

Or, CFAM. That trains a lot faster and weeds out the weakest recruits for you.
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mordrax

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 10:10:45 pm »

on my fifth or sixth fort, but I'm noticing that most of my forts fail due to a weak military.
That's my exact problem.

The wiki tells you the basic of the UI, not a guide.

Danger rooms and killing stuff takes alot of micromanagement. (I define micromanagement as anything that needs you to look back at it after you've set it up)

I created this thread to ask about military training and had some luck with sparring, currently exploring multiple order sparring pairs in a single squad.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112230.0
I'm currently in my 3rd year, 80 dwarves, 6 legendary soldiers (2 axe, 2 hammer, 2 spear).

the advice about armor is overrated, my axelords are naked zerkers! >_<!
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ClkWrkJester

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 10:28:40 pm »

Before doing a military, I always build a good set of traps.  That way in case the military fails and dies in pools of their own guts, the invaders still die on their way in... until you get good with it, you never should put all your faith in a military.
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Lightningfalcon

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Re: A crash course in military?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 10:36:25 pm »

What I do is just give everyone steel axes, copper shields, iron armour, and leather paddings. All the dwarfs with no weapon skills can normally get to novice within a year that way, as they will all teach each other neccasry skills.  Plus it is easier to set up, as long as you have plenty of flux, iron ore, and coke/charcoal. 
If possible, try to put the barracks as close to the entrance as possible, or make it part of the entrance.  And incorparate all elements of defense.  Have drawbridges, cage traps, archery towers, pill boxes, and anything else that might help.  Always have a backup plan.  If your dwarves won't pull the lever that secures your fort from any sort of attack, have another way of stopping them.  If they get past your entrance, have another position that can be held.
Also, never underestimate the power of a squad of 10 legendary+5 miners.  If all else fails, conscript all of your miners into a squad and position them at a central staircase, or your meeting hall.  Or just make a military out of miners.  Training just consist of designating an area to be dug. 
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