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[ptb_ptb]

Hi, I'm having trouble with the population limit not being kept to (I've already left a note on the bug page http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2922
).

Anyway, I saw a suggestion that a workaround to stop migrants arriving is to drop the created (generated?) wealth value in the raw files of your saved game. Unfortunately I can't find where that value is stored. Help?

Other suggestions on getting the population limit to work would also be nice.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Who told you that? Fiddling with created wealth is much harder than a mere raws edit. There's probably some number in the save folder you could change, but I don't know what it is. I can pretty much promise it's not in the raws folder, though.

[ptb_ptb]

Who told you that?

It's on the wiki.
"A possible workaround is to edit the raw files so the the created wealth of your fortress is negative, which should scare away new migrants."

Fiddling with created wealth is much harder than a mere raws edit.

There's probably some number in the save folder you could change, but I don't know what it is. I can pretty much promise it's not in the raws folder, though.

The .dat files aren't human readable. :-(

[GreatWyrmGold]

The wiki is, again, wrong. One of these days I need to actually start working on fixing these things...

[ptb_ptb]

I've been re-reading the notes on the bug page and I think I've come up with a work around.  The problem starts when your actual population exceeds the pop cap.

So, if you have population 20, a pop cap 20 and then a child is born then you'll get a whole bunch of dwarves next season.

Work around: Change pop-cap to match actual population (pop cap 21). Then you should get no migrants.

Similarly if you a dwarf dies so you have population 19 and pop cap 20 then you are liable to get a bunch of migrants (putting you _over_ the limit) next wave.

Work around: Change pop-cap to match actual population (pop cap 19).

I'll try this with a new game and see if it works. I presume you'd have to exit dwarf fortress, change ini file, then restart for pop-cap changes to take effect.

[GreatWyrmGold]

The bit about falling population is semi-expected behavior; at least, everyone knows you'll get a ful migrant wave if only one below your popcap. The other bit is...confusing.

[ptb_ptb]

The bit about falling population is semi-expected behavior; at least, everyone knows you'll get a ful migrant wave if only one below your popcap. The other bit is...confusing.

I got two waves after the dwarf death - after several 'no migrant' seasons. Now that I think of it I wasn't paying enough attention to be absolutely certain of the details, but I ended up with 43 dwarves (pop-limit of 30). 

Are children / babies counted in the population that is compared to the pop cap?  I guess I'll find out for myself soon.

[Garath]

yes they are. You do know how the po-cap works in regards with the liaison?

[ptb_ptb]

You do know how the po-cap works in regards with the liaison?

Er, I might have read about it but it doesn't ring a bell now.

[Garath]

Your population is only checked against the cap when the liaison leaves the map after talking with expedition leader, mayor or baron. If you're below pop cap, you get 3 migrant waves, the size depending on your fort wealth. If above, you don't.

So, if you're one below the pop cap, the liaison leaves and you adjust the pop cap after the first wave, you get 3 waves of migrants total still. If you're one above, lose almost everyone in an accident, you'll have to wait for the liaison to arrive, talk and make sure he gets off the map safe to get migrants again.

Moral of this: don't make a bug report if you have no clue how something works, ask around first to see if it is really a bug. The wiki page is a bit vague regarding this, just saying it is "not fully understood". This is because sometimes you still get an extra wave and other oddities.

So, now to how to work it. The first 2 migrant waves can't be avoided since the liaison won't arrive yet. This usually ends you with between 14 and 20 dwarfs. Setting pop cap at 7 ensures no more migrants. The next waves are bigger, but unless you've been digging, smelting and making lots of gold or steel stuff, should get you aroun 60 to 80 dwarfs. After that it depends on your playstyle I guess. I've managed to end up with between 64 and 71 dwarfs in my last few forts consistently. If I let it go another year I usually get between 115 and 140 dwarfs in my fort total. I never leave it on the default 200, so I don't know how big the next waves would be.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Once goblin sieges set in, you'll usually hit a nice equilibrium of population, barring FTW devices being built in the interim. Surprisingly often, that equilibrium is set at zero.

[Garath]

a small note (again):
don't use the bugtracker like this. First do a long, long search on the forum if you can find some info on it. Then search the bugtracker if there is already a report on the issue. Then make a thread here to ask what could be wrong. People who respond might tell you if it's a bug (you just didn't find it in the tracker), a feature or something unfinished (the game is technically still in alpha testing phase). During replying in the thread, when it seems it might be a bug, people will probably start looking through the tracker more thoroughly. If it does indeed seem like a new bug, you can make a new report. I'm pretty sure this is stated in the bug report rules too.

Oh, a small hint too: mention which version you're playing and if you use any mods (LNP is a mod too) when asking questions here

[ptb_ptb]

a small note (again):
don't use the bugtracker like this.

I would like to point out that I didn't submit a new bug. I simply added a note to an existing bug page that had many similar such notes.

[NecroRebel]

"A possible workaround is to edit the raw files so the the created wealth of your fortress is negative, which should scare away new migrants."

Fiddling with created wealth is much harder than a mere raws edit.

There's probably some number in the save folder you could change, but I don't know what it is. I can pretty much promise it's not in the raws folder, though.

The .dat files aren't human readable. :-(

The wiki there tells you to edit the raws, so why are you talking about editing the .dat files? If you're told to edit the raws to accomplish something, edit the raws to accomplish that thing.

If you were to alter the raws of your save game by adding or modifying the MATERIAL_VALUE token for every material to be 0 or negative, the value of every item made from the altered materials would likewise be 0 or negative. It's probably best to comment out all existing MATERIAL_VALUE tokens by removing the brackets around them so you can change it back later more easily.

The wiki is, again, wrong. One of these days I need to actually start working on fixing these things...

In this case the wiki isn't wrong so much as misinterpreted, I think 

[ptb_ptb]

The wiki there tells you to edit the raws, so why are you talking about editing the .dat files?

Because I had just been told that the value wasn't in the raws.