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[ivanthe8th]

Hey Bay12,

I'm asking you this because this is the best online community. Hands-down. And I know I can trust you.

About a month ago I called off my wedding. I did it only about 10 days before the actual wedding. It wasn't the prettiest thing I've ever done socially, but then again I don't know how you can call off a wedding "smoothly". I know she was deeply hurt, not just from me calling it off, but also because she felt betrayed by it. She didn't see it coming, and one of the hallmarks of our relationship was a willingness to communicate.

I'm not going to bother detailing the whole process. But I will include some details to provide context.

I got a hotel room that night. We had been living together and I knew that if I stayed I'd change my mind and go ahead and marry her.
I ended up walking out on her when we spoke about it the next day (I came back for a while), she had thought it was just cold feet all night, and I had to convince her I was serious.
I stayed with a friend for a month afterward.
She ended up going on the honeymoon her family had gotten us with her mother. Jamaica at a couples resort for 5 days.

Initially I expressed interest in resuming a romantic relationship, but in the week she was in Jamaica I decided against it. Instead I told her I wanted to remain on friendly terms.
Obviously things are going to be rocky here. But that's not what's confusing me.

[/exposition]

Right now the thing that has me confused is her current behavior.

She is treating every word I say and every thing I do with the utmost suspicion. She acts on every possible action that could reflect negatively on her. And she's withholding what I would consider basic courtesy in the name of being hurt. Allow me to give an example or two.

1) We had planned on getting dinner one evening. I let her choose the restaurant. She picked one near our former apartment, but about 20 minutes drive from mine. At first I had no problem, but later I realized that I'd be in the area on business the next day. So I contacted her and asked to reschedule for the next day. When she asked why, I told her. Her response was to accuse me of placing so little value on her as a person that I couldn't be asked to make a separate trip.

In my opinion that's a level of suspicion well beyond a normal break-up.

2) While she was in Jamaica with her mother, I stayed in our mutual apartment out of a desire to impose as little as possible on my friend. She knew this, and I asked her to tell me when she was planning on returning. She refused to merely assure me that she was planning on telling me when she would return. She left me in the dark as to whether or not I could expect a phone call or not, let alone when she would actually get back.

Here is what I would consider taking trust issues too far. It's one thing to not want to trust me with her feelings, but to deny me information felt like I was being exploited.

[/examples]

I suppose my question to you, Bay12, is what I can do to work with her. I feel like every action I take is invariably placed under such microscopic scrutiny that she is guaranteed to find something to be upset about. I can't talk to her about mundane topics, because the slightest misstep in conversation sets her off. At this point, I feel like she treats strangers with more dignity than she's been affording me. And I'm inclined to simply sever all communications rather than submit to this kind of suspicion and the browbeatings I receive based on those suspicions.

I'm happy to provide further clarification if you want it. But I'll end here in the interest of keeping the OP from being a wall of text.

Thanks,
Ivan

[Il Palazzo]

In my opinion that's a level of suspicion well beyond a normal break-up.

See, I'd hardly call that a normal break-up.

[ivanthe8th]

In my opinion that's a level of suspicion well beyond a normal break-up.

See, I'd hardly call that a normal break-up.

Fair enough, but would you say that it's an appropriate level of suspicion? I'm inclined to say no, but that's part of why I came to the bay12 forums. If I'm just wrong you'd tell me.

[Il Palazzo]

I can't imagine a person that wouldn't feel deeply hurt by having their fiancee suddenly and unexpectedly breaking up with them just before the wedding. I'd call that behaviour rather justified, or at least understandable.

[ivanthe8th]

So what would you suggest I do?

I mean, I recognize that she's hurt and that I shouldn't expect her to react dispassionately. But I feel like this particular combination of responses from her is making it impossible for me to make progress with her.
I'm not so much concerned with holding this against her as I am with the fact that I can't seem to do anything positive in the situation.

[Rooster]

U crazy bro?
There are no second chances. You have one chance per girl per lifetime. There is nothing you can do to fix it. Break ups are for ever, especially what you pulled off. I believe you sir are withholding information. Nobody just walks away from a wedding for no reason. And whatever that reason was it didn't go away.

So I humbly and politely advise: please don't waste your time and money with your ex girlfriend. She won't come back.

[LordBucket]

I know I can trust you.

Ok. Understand that works both ways. We might not tell you what you want to hear.

She is treating every word I say and every thing I do with the utmost suspicion.

As well she should.

would you say that it's an appropriate level of suspicion?

Yes.

she's withholding what I would consider basic courtesy in the name of being hurt.

That is understandable given the circumstances.

In my opinion that's a level of suspicion well beyond a normal break-up.

It was not a normal breakup. You canceled her wedding.

what would you suggest I do?

I can't seem to do anything positive in the situation.

Apologize and leave her life permanently. That would be positive action. Better to amputate an arm than leave the gangrene to destroy the entire body. And in case it was not clear, you are the gangrene in this scenario.

I feel like every action I take is invariably placed under such
microscopic scrutiny that she is guaranteed to find something to be upset about.

Some things are difficult to forgive within the course of a single lifetime. This is one of them. It is very likely that your relationship with her will not recover from this. I advise against trying. Move on, and allow her to move on. Women frequently spend their entire childhood dreaming and fantasizing about their wedding. You fucked up one of her life's dreams, and you don't even understand what you've done.

She won't come back.

And if she does it will be poisoned.

Trust is like a porcelain vase. If you shatter it, it's difficult to glue back together. And if you do, it's not the same as it was.

[ivanthe8th]

First, to make it clear, I have never had any intention of resuming any kind of romantic relationship with her. My hope has been merely that we might be able to continue communicating on some kind of non-painful level. That alone has been enough of an obstacle.
So again, for the record, I am not trying to get her back.


It sounds like your advice is "don't even try and communicate with her". And realistically, her behavior has made me believe that she may want just that. Although she says that she wants to speak with me as well. Should I just take all this as evidence that she would rather not even bother speaking with me, regardless of what she may claim?

I believe you sir are withholding information. Nobody just walks away from a wedding for no reason. And whatever that reason was it didn't go away.

Yes I am not telling you everything, that would be quite a long post. But I am aware that my reasons for calling it off are not going to go away. That's why I don't intend to pursue anything more than "non-painful communication" with her.

She is treating every word I say and every thing I do with the utmost suspicion.

As well she should.

would you say that it's an appropriate level of suspicion?

Yes.

she's withholding what I would consider basic courtesy in the name of being hurt.

That is understandable given the circumstances.

Forgive my boldness, but your tone seems to indicate that you're a woman.
Some of these reactions have been a complete mystery to my male brain. If you're not too upset with me for having called it off, would you mind helping me understand some of these things? I feel like some of the things that are bothering me are things that a woman would simply look at and say "of course!". But to me they are not obvious, and any insight would be appreciated.

[LordBucket]

Should I just take all this as evidence that she would rather not even bother speaking with me, regardless of what she may claim?

Her desires are probably conflicted. It's not as simple as "she wants X or Y." Some of her wants X. Some of her wants Y. And some of her is probably confused and doesn't know what to want.

would you mind helping me understand some of these things?

Women in our society are subjected to just as much gender training as men are. But the nature of the training is different. Almost every Disney movie ever made is about a girl finding her "one true love" and marrying him. Girls grow up playing with barbie and ken dolls doing mock weddings. In elementary school they're picking petals off flowers alternating betwee "he likes me" and "he likes me not." So much of the typical girl's life is spent looking forward to one day meeting her prince and having her "perfect wedding."

What she's going through is basically the same as a guy who grows up all his life dreaming of being a fighter pilot...then losing an eye and realizing he'll never fly. You've shattered her dreams. Even if one day she does meet "somebody else" odds are very good that she'll never trust him because of what you did. She'll always be doubting in some corner of her mind whether her next relationship will suddenly end. If she ever gets married, instead of living her dream and and enjoying every moment of it she'll spend every second terrified that her husband to be is going to walk out on her just like you did. And if the wedding does happen she'll continue to living in fear and doubt that he might leave at any moment for reasons she doesn't understand and can't predict. That "perfect wedding" is forever gone, and all her dreams of marrying her prince are laced with fear and uncertainty.

You've poisoned her entire life.

It sounds like your advice is "don't even try and communicate with her".

It's interesting, but no surprise that you skipped the "apologize" part.

Stop being a selfish bastard and try to see things from her point of view. If you want to work through this the first step is to realize that you had hand in it. You're apparently untraumatized, but she obviously is. Diminishing the shattering of her life's dreams and being surprised and indignant that she has the audacity to be bitter about it is not going to help you.

You destroyed her childhood fantasy and are complaining that she's being rude to you about it.

Do you really not understand why we're telling you that you're the bad guy here?

If you really want to "fix" this the first step is understanding what you've done. Not whining about how inconvenient it is that she's being rude to you and complaining that she's not accommodating your desire for a comfortable, easy "let's be friends after I destroyed your life."

[ivanthe8th]

Thanks for your candor LordBucket. It's difficult to hear but I appreciate your willingness to say it. This is why I came to bay12.

I have understood that I'm the bad guy because it was my decision to call off the wedding. But I can honestly say that I hadn't thought of this as shattering some childhood dream.
I called off the wedding because I thought our life together would be worse than it would be if I broke it off. But now it sounds to me as though there was no good option. Either we get married and live unhappily, or I break it off and, in your words, poison her entire life.

I'll spend some time thinking about what you've said. For the past month it's consistently been difficult for me to understand her motivations and feelings, and nobody has been able to frame her state of mind for me. I have already apologized for breaking it off, I agree I need to apologize for the way I've regarded her in my own mind.

I agree, I'm not traumatized by this. I was unhappy with our relationship and it wasn't a surprise for me to call it off. But nobody has every suggested that what she's feeling is trauma before now. I'll try and re-evaluate the past month with this in mind.

[Trapezohedron]

If you don't mind, I have a few questions:

Why did you break up? Before her wedding, even?

Why do you think both of you would live unhappily when both of you married?

Why were you unhappy with your relationship? Why didn't you break up before both of you scheduled a wedding?

[ivanthe8th]

I'll start near the end of your questions.

 - Why didn't we break up before we got engaged?
Because we dated for only about 3 months before we got engaged, but the engagement itself lasted around 17 months. Why did I propose so soon? Basically I am not a happy person. Early in my life my primary emotional experience was with negative emotions, so much so that I developed an extremely unemotional approach to life as a coping mechanism. When my ex-fiancee and I started dating, I felt happy with another person for the first time in my life. I was so enthralled by this that I asked her to marry me, with the expectation that a long engagement would give us time to identify and solve problems in our relationship. I recognize that this was the real error in all of this. I should never have proposed when I did.

- Why do I think we would not have been happy if we did marry?
As much as communication was a hallmark of our relationship, compromise was a consistent failing. We never learned to approach a problem and develop a mutually agreeable solution. Instead, and this was primarily motivated by her (in my opinion), we would "agree to disagree" until one of us gave in and just went with the option the other preferred. Typically that meant me giving up and doing what she wanted.
That failure to compromise played itself out throughout our relationship. At its simplest we couldn't agree on simple things like restaurants and what to do on the weekends. At its most difficult we had resolve critical differences such as religion, child rearing, and relationships with one another's families.

- Why was I unhappy?
I felt like she didn't respect my needs or feelings. A lot of that feeling came from this "agree to disagree" phenomena. Frequently, when I brought up a concern about our relationship, she and I would discuss the matter until we were blue in the face without coming close to resolving the issue. Eventually, I would stop bringing up the matter, because I'd rather enjoy her company than have relationship conversations without end. I believe that this contributed to her belief that everything was just fine. She seldom brought up issues because she was getting her way most of the time. And I was unwilling to continue bringing up issues ad infinitum because, realistically, we needed to have some good experiences to make our relationship worthwhile and they were not going to happen while we kept up those types of conversations.

- Why did I break up / Why then?
Don't get me wrong. We did have some success. In fact, after a very difficult series of conversations in January/February that lasted more than 5 weeks, we saw a lot of improvement. But about 3 weeks before the wedding, a week or so before I called it off, something happened that completely undermined my sense that we were improving as a couple. To describe it would take some time. But basically, until that moment I thought we were doing pretty well, and would make it as a couple. But after that event, I was no longer confident in our ability to address our issues effectively. And without the hope that we would eventually resolve our problems, I became deeply uncomfortable with the idea of entering into a marriage.

[Taniec]

After this last post of yours, I can entirely see your (legitimate) concerns. The biggest blunder you made (admittedly) was getting engaged after three months. In that time span you can not know enough about a person to make such a large decision. Things like this suck, but I think both of you will cope.

Let me tell you this though. You are not fully at fault for what happened. You discussed these issues with your ex many times and you did not like how things were progressing as you mentioned in your last bit. (My curiosity in your story is strong, but I can I definitively can respect your privacy). I would advise you to work on yourself and how you perceive your self worth before entering another intimate relationship. A lot of people think a relationship can solve many of their emotional problems, but many a times it can further exacerbate them.

[ivanthe8th]

After this last post of yours, I can entirely see your (legitimate) concerns. The biggest blunder you made (admittedly) was getting engaged after three months. In that time span you can not know enough about a person to make such a large decision. Things like this suck, but I think both of you will cope.

Let me tell you this though. You are not fully at fault for what happened. You discussed these issues with your ex many times and you did not like how things were progressing as you mentioned in your last bit. (My curiosity in your story is strong, but I can I definitively can respect your privacy). I would advise you to work on yourself and how you perceive your self worth before entering another intimate relationship. A lot of people think a relationship can solve many of their emotional problems, but many a times it can further exacerbate them.

I appreciate that you said that. LordBucket is correct in all regards, but rather brutal.
I don't mind discussing it, but slowly typing it out on a public forum at 1am is a bit much. This is already quite specific enough for anyone to recognize if they knew to look here. I've talked about this with others in person, and most people have said the same thing you have, if that's any consolation.

I will add, I have been and am continuing to see a psychotherapist. And trust me this is a big topic of conversation.

[Trapezohedron]

Reading through it, I can see why you did it.

After this last post of yours, I can entirely see your (legitimate) concerns. The biggest blunder you made (admittedly) was getting engaged after three months. In that time span you can not know enough about a person to make such a large decision. Things like this suck, but I think both of you will cope.

Let me tell you this though. You are not fully at fault for what happened. You discussed these issues with your ex many times and you did not like how things were progressing as you mentioned in your last bit. (My curiosity in your story is strong, but I can I definitively can respect your privacy). I would advise you to work on yourself and how you perceive your self worth before entering another intimate relationship. A lot of people think a relationship can solve many of their emotional problems, but many a times it can further exacerbate them.

I agree with this person's post. Now, I'm really sorry for having to ask about that. Doesn't feel good to force private things out of you, but yeah, it clarifies a lot of things.