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[Moogie]

Keyword here is "ex-fiance". There should be nothing left to "deal with". Having ended the relationship, you cannot simply go back to being friends. Love does not work that way.

And don't make this a gender issue, please. It makes you sound like you're desperate to shift the blame onto some uncontrollable factor. You need to take responsibility for your actions. I'd give exactly the same advice to a girl in your situation.

Don't drag things on in the fantasy dreamland hope that things can be 'fixed'. The sooner you realise this is irrepairable, the sooner you can move on and let her move on with life.

[darkrider2]

Love does not work that way.

Let us stop saying that there are 'rules', no matter how discreetly we imply them, to love. Love is people. And all people are different.

Hell, I know this one guy, his wife got him a threeway for their anniversary, sure it's not standard par for the course, but it works for them.

From the sounds of the original posters replies, I get the suspicion that he does not entirely know what he wants. We can't really tell you what you want, but we can give the advice as to what might hurt the least.

Which in my opinion would be to leave and never look back. She's made it pretty clear that there is no way you can reconcile that.

[ivanthe8th]

Thanks Darkrider.

I'd say that I do know what I want, but I'm having difficulty making it work with her.

What I want is for our relationship to be where we can communicate and interact without it being "all about our past". I'd like to be able to talk with her on the phone about my work, or the news, or anything without the conversation devolving into suspicion and hurt. At the moment that's where we are; I couldn't talk with her about a neutral topic if I wanted to because she takes offense at everything I say or do.

I came to Bay12 because I need help "dealing with" the fact that every time I try and move forward in a positive way, I am met with this kind of suspicion and anger. Invariably our conversations turn to how I've hurt her, or how I feel she's treating me with undue malice. I'm not pretending that I didn't hurt her in a big way, but I feel like she's making it impossible for us to move towards being "friends".

Perhaps that's the problem, as Moogie and LordBucket have said. Perhaps I should just abandon all hope of ever speaking to her again for any reason. But I have been hopeful that perhaps we can work out something more amicable. The problem, I feel, is that I don't know how to proceed with her treating me with this kind of attitude.

[scriver]

You cannot move from where you are now to "being friends". Trying to have such a relationship with her just after breaking off a wedding is very cruel to her. It seems like you are already "over" her, but she needs time and space to get "over" you as well, that doesn't just happen automatically just because you feel that way. Remember, this isn't like any breakup between people who are simply dating, you almost practically left her at the altar. You need to understand that going back to friends might not be possible (hell, most people can't be friends after any kind of break up), and if it is, it might not happen in a long time. Honestly, I feel the best thing you can do for your relationship is to give her space and time to think for herself. Don't push your "friendship" on her. Tell her how you feel (but be sure to make clear you do not want a romantic relationship, just friendship), then give her half a year to a year, without you, to find out how she feels.

[ivanthe8th]

I understand that.
Ironically enough she's been initiating most of our contact in the past month. In fact, that's part of her accusations towards me, that I say I want to be her friend but I don't contact her (perhaps she views this as a lack of a genuine motivation to be friends, but I don't know what's going on in her head anymore).
I'm not sure how to read it.

[Gokajern]

Did you explain to her why you decided to cancel the wedding and end the relationship? Be careful though, that could lead to some emotional rollercoasters, just make sure it's clear, it will most likely help. If it was me (I am not a woman), I'd assume it's the least I deserve.

I also agree that the best thing to do is to leave and never look back, I also had a similar experience and there is no way to leave the past behind, not really though, not completely. Moreso if we assume that what Lordbucket said is 100% the truth, that she has been irreparably damaged and poisoned for life.

Bottomline is, and you have described it quite thoroughly, it's too much of a hassle to be her friend, at least right now. I dunno, I like to believe that people can get over everything and I would personally assume that a small chance remains that you may be able to be her friend in the future, I know this kind of contradicts what I said earlier, but not completely, not if you get over your past.

Is her friendship that important? Either way my point is that now is not the time, not while the ashes still burn a little... or something like that.

[DrPoo]

Hey Bay12,

I'm asking you this because this is the best online community. Hands-down. And I know I can trust you.

About a month ago I called off my wedding. I did it only about 10 days before the actual wedding. It wasn't the prettiest thing I've ever done socially, but then again I don't know how you can call off a wedding "smoothly". I know she was deeply hurt, not just from me calling it off, but also because she felt betrayed by it. She didn't see it coming, and one of the hallmarks of our relationship was a willingness to communicate.

I'm not going to bother detailing the whole process. But I will include some details to provide context.

I got a hotel room that night. We had been living together and I knew that if I stayed I'd change my mind and go ahead and marry her.
I ended up walking out on her when we spoke about it the next day (I came back for a while), she had thought it was just cold feet all night, and I had to convince her I was serious.
I stayed with a friend for a month afterward.
She ended up going on the honeymoon her family had gotten us with her mother. Jamaica at a couples resort for 5 days.

Initially I expressed interest in resuming a romantic relationship, but in the week she was in Jamaica I decided against it. Instead I told her I wanted to remain on friendly terms.
Obviously things are going to be rocky here. But that's not what's confusing me.

[/exposition]

Right now the thing that has me confused is her current behavior.

She is treating every word I say and every thing I do with the utmost suspicion. She acts on every possible action that could reflect negatively on her. And she's withholding what I would consider basic courtesy in the name of being hurt. Allow me to give an example or two.

1) We had planned on getting dinner one evening. I let her choose the restaurant. She picked one near our former apartment, but about 20 minutes drive from mine. At first I had no problem, but later I realized that I'd be in the area on business the next day. So I contacted her and asked to reschedule for the next day. When she asked why, I told her. Her response was to accuse me of placing so little value on her as a person that I couldn't be asked to make a separate trip.

In my opinion that's a level of suspicion well beyond a normal break-up.

2) While she was in Jamaica with her mother, I stayed in our mutual apartment out of a desire to impose as little as possible on my friend. She knew this, and I asked her to tell me when she was planning on returning. She refused to merely assure me that she was planning on telling me when she would return. She left me in the dark as to whether or not I could expect a phone call or not, let alone when she would actually get back.

Here is what I would consider taking trust issues too far. It's one thing to not want to trust me with her feelings, but to deny me information felt like I was being exploited.

[/examples]

I suppose my question to you, Bay12, is what I can do to work with her. I feel like every action I take is invariably placed under such microscopic scrutiny that she is guaranteed to find something to be upset about. I can't talk to her about mundane topics, because the slightest misstep in conversation sets her off. At this point, I feel like she treats strangers with more dignity than she's been affording me. And I'm inclined to simply sever all communications rather than submit to this kind of suspicion and the browbeatings I receive based on those suspicions.

I'm happy to provide further clarification if you want it. But I'll end here in the interest of keeping the OP from being a wall of text.

Thanks,
Ivan

Why in the name of fucking god, science, satan, buddha, what the fucking shit redicolous thing you believe in would you ever, ever in the existence of mankind, do such a horrible fucking thing to a human being?

[ChairmanPoo]

Read the whole thread and find out

[lordcooper]

This isn't a situation I've ever been in so I can't really give any proper advice.  I know some people who went through a similar scenario a couple of years back and while they weren't exactly civil towards each other immediately afterwards, they recently made up and seem to be getting on okay as friends.  She's going to be hurting right now and you aren't exactly the best person to help her through this.  Time can be a great healer though, so maybe you'll be able to patch things up to some extent later.  Absence make the heart grow fonder and all that.

Sometimes things just don't work out and this doesn't always have to be a person's fault.  Basically, good luck dude.

[Graebeard]

Sometimes people don't want the same thing out of relationships.  The stereotypical example is when a guy is interested in a girl, but she wants to be "just friends".

Know that the same thing is probably true here.  Calling off the wedding was not a mutual thing.  I imagine she still wants to be with you, but hates you for betraying her, which hatred is made more intense by the feelings she has for you.  That is the nature of betrayal.  That is why the very pit of hell is reserved not for murderers, but for betrayers.

Now.  Maybe you did the best you could with a bad situation.  It certainly sounds like it.  In an objective sense, calling off the wedding might have been the best option for everyone at that point.  You can rest assured that she does not feel the same way.

There may be no "good" solution here.  I very much doubt it is possible to have the relationship with her that you want.  You are probably still going to have to choose between two bad options: cutting her off; or having a relationship with her on her terms.

I can't tell you which of those is better for you, but I highly recommend evaluating those two options and deciding which one you will take if (when) it gets to the point where you have to make a decision.

[Truean]

If you do somehow manage to be friends with her again in any capacity, then you're gonna have to start not only from square one, but from a negative. The idea of a wedding is undying love for one another til death do you part. It's the idea that you want to be with this person forever, except right before that happens....

No.

Of course she's suspicious of you. There's a massive logical disconnect between: "I wanna get married and be together forever," and "let's cancel everything."
Moreover, I imagine she's embarrassed as hell by all of this. Forgetting whatever money may have been involved here, she's put in a massive emotional and social investment. All of her friends and family, are gonna wonder why those invitations and RSVPs don't mean anything all of a sudden.

[vonduus]

ivanthe8th, if your story is correct, you did the right thing. I should know, I did the same thing some years ago, for almost the same reasons

Yes, you hurt her and probably ruined her dreams. But she would probably have hurt you and ruined your happiness if you got married - I judge this on what you tell us about her non-compromising skills. In due time your steadily growing unhappiness would have ruined your relationship. Which would have ruined her life, eventually. If you marry, you will regret it; if you do not marry, you will also regret it; if you marry or do not marry, you will regret both.

Yes, it was stupid to ask her to marry you after only three months. But stupid is normal behavior for lovers. And perhaps in a more rational world you could have canceled the wedding sooner than you did. But the world of lovers is not exactly rational. Consider yourself lucky that there is no children involved. Because then you would have to subscribe to the fiction "still being friends". You actually saved your kids from the blessings of a divorce.

Anyway, my advice to you is: Forget her. It may take a few years, but believe me, you will eventually forget her. But never forget what you have learned from doing what you did. With a little thought and a little luck you might prevent it from happening in exactly the same way again.

You have my full sympathy.

[ivanthe8th]

Thank you all very much for your support. I have been talking with friends and family about all this, but it's so good to hear that people think I did the right thing when they have no vested interest in making me feel better.

I am confident that I did the right thing, and I have explained my reasons for calling it off to her. So don't worry, she's not completely left in the dark as to why I did what I did.

Probably the most useful thing I've noticed is that everyone says the same thing. Some of you have focused on her pain, and are telling me to leave her alone. Some of you are focused on my reasons, and are telling me to leave her alone. Regardless of why, ultimately the advice is the same, and that means something.

[Kogan Loloklam]

My turn.

What. The. Zombiejesus. Were. You. Thinking?

Not breaking the wedding. You were wrong in doing that as you were wrong in proposing in the first place, but the sheer magnatude of your screwup was compounded afterward...

The question really is, how the hell did you miss every bit of common guy knowledge and communicate with her afterward instead of changing your name and zip code asap?

You continuiously bowed to her wishes because you were tired of the hassle. In doing so, you showed agreement. How was she to know she didn't just convince you with her superior arguments?
And then there you go changing the game on her after a significant financial investment and insulted her in front of everyone she measures herself by (everyone of whom she told about the wedding, I assure you). What's your full name and social? I figure it's a sure bet to take out a million in life insurance on you right now. Much better odds than the lotto.

You became an elvish envoy off to tell a player to stop cutting down trees.

Really, really stupid.

[Rooster]

At this point it is beating down a dead horse. The message got across, the sinner repents. There is nothing that the entiriety of Bay12 could add to discussion