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I ATTAC

8 (15.4%)

I PROTECC

6 (11.5%)

Waiting on the third one

2 (3.8%)

Waiting on the third AND fourth one

1 (1.9%)

GET WELL SOON ZYGARDE

5 (9.6%)

I am a concientous objector and abstain from taking up arms

30 (57.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51

[Akura]

It can't be an ORAS run, since Snorlax and think Tyranitar are not in ORAS... while Porygon/2/-Z are not available in B/W.

[Reudh]

It can't be an ORAS run, since Snorlax and think Tyranitar are not in ORAS... while Porygon/2/-Z are not available in B/W.

Remember you can trade up from D/P/Pt/HG/SS as long as you still have a functioning DS in addition to a 3DS.

[Culise]

Not to mention regular trades between XY and ORAS, Internet trades, the use of other game cartridges (either yours or your friend's) or just Pokemon Bank to temporarily store Pokemon while you restart the game...there's plenty of ways to do a run through any game with the Pokemon of your choice.

[Aklyon]

It can't be an ORAS run, since Snorlax and think Tyranitar are not in ORAS... while Porygon/2/-Z are not available in B/W.

Remember you can trade up from D/P/Pt/HG/SS as long as you still have a functioning DS in addition to a 3DS.

And up from the gba to those to ORAS if your functioning DS is not a DSi.

[umiman]

If not an hmslave, then at least a flyer so you can go retrieve your hmslave when you need it.

For in-game, it's not like you really need to go all-out on the movesets, so I don't think an HM slave is absolutely critical.  Surf was actually what I was most concerned about (especially if this happens to be for an ORAS run), but it turns out both Snorlax and Tyranitar can learn it.  Go figure. ^_^

Yeah, that's how everyone thinks at first but unless you're some kind of Buddha you're gonna be sick of running back to a PC to get dive / waterfall / cut / strength every 15 minutes.

[Culise]

Err, so you're saying everyone thinks an HM slave is not critical?  So, then, maybe I'm missing something, but why would you be running back to the PC to get dive/waterfall/cut/strength every 15 minutes when you've just taught those moves to party Pokemon as I suggested?

EDIT: Oh, or you were addressing Akylon's point, whose post I quoted.  Sorry if I misread. ^_^

That said, when I use dedicated Pokemon for HMs, I usually always carry those Pokemon with me, so I'm not rushing to retrieve them in either case.  Those playthroughs are ones where I use only 4 or 5 battlers.

[Greiger]

I used to use HM slaves but not really so much anymore.  During games I pretty much just have each of the pokes in my party know one or two hm moves like cut, strength, fly, or surf. You rarely need to have a full set of competitive level moves in the story, and moves like surf and fly are not completely garbage anyway.  Postgame I'm usually still using the same pokes from the story for the really common stuff like surf, fly, and strength.

In my old competitive team my Charizard even had fly as part of it's moveset.  So I wouldn't have to switch out my team if I just wanted to go to the move re-learner or IV judge.    Fly in that regard became double unneeded though, what with me learning how to use the battle box, and the eon flute in ORAS.  So it's using protect now instead.

[Neonivek]

I sort of realized how little of a life you have to have to play pokemon competitively.

Right down to calculating EVs down to the single digits.

[Trapezohedron]

There's a reason why Smogon typically uses the pokemon battle simulators instead.

[umiman]

And if you really wanted to make pro-tier teams, you'd be hacking them in instead of spending literal weeks / months trying to make perfect setups.

Can you imagine trying to legitimately get a perfect stat / nature legendary?

[Neonivek]

And if you really wanted to make pro-tier teams, you'd be hacking them in instead of spending literal weeks / months trying to make perfect setups.

Can you imagine trying to legitimately get a perfect stat / nature legendary?

It is worse then that. Many builds require moves that are impossible to get normally... and I don't even mean by Move Tutor.

[Trapezohedron]

*ahem*contrary serperior*ahem

[SOLDIER First]

[Natures, IVs, EVs fly directly over my head]
i like samurott because it's a samurai otter

[Reudh]

And if you really wanted to make pro-tier teams, you'd be hacking them in instead of spending literal weeks / months trying to make perfect setups.

Can you imagine trying to legitimately get a perfect stat / nature legendary?

It is worse then that. Many builds require moves that are impossible to get normally... and I don't even mean by Move Tutor.

People have generally done the hard yards for you already by generating 6IV dittos, the only remaining legwork you have to do is breed the pokemon of choice. And no, "many builds" don't require impossible to access moves. If they were impossible to access, they wouldn't be builds, now would they? EVs are super easy to get too, especially as of Gen5/6 with horde battles/Super Training.

So while yes, once upon a time, getting a 6IV31 / 252 / 252 / 4 EV pokemon for yourself was on its own extremely time consuming, Ninty's taken a lot of the grind out of it. Certain mons are guaranteed to get at least two perfect IVs. You can trade online for a ditto, they're pretty common. (I actually used the SpiderOS exploit to duplicate my 31IV dittoes, so if anyone wants some I've got a few left I think). Etc etc etc. The only annoyance is "egg moves", through which you often need to breed moves in a chain through many different parents, but not many builds use those egg moves anyway.

[Trapezohedron]

Well, aside from egg moves, Neo's points were a valid concern pre B(2)/W(2), where HMs are consumed at will, making a lot of builds mutually exclusive unless you possessed another copy of the game and had a pokemon trade that item across.

Still doesn't mean pokemon training for competitive play where rules may or may not be moderated by Smogon (because some people like enforcing non-official rules) isn't tiring.