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[RedKing]

Why not just stop at this. THERE IS NO ENFORMENT PROVISION IN OBAMA CARE. IT HAS NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN MAKE YOU PAY THE FINE. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864950/posts

I'm not exactly lending much credence to the legal wizardry of the Freepers. This is a "turtles all the way down" kind of argument. The law doesn't need to explicitly set out the penalty for not paying the penalty (because if it did, it would then need to specify the penalty for not paying THAT penalty, and so forth in an infinite recursive loop).

Bottom line: if you owe the government money, they have a variety of mechanisms for recovering it without being explicitly specified in the original statute.

[Leafsnail]

Isn't there probably some blanket crime covering nonpayment of fines/ penalties anyway?

[GlyphGryph]

Tax, leafsneal, and we are perfectly capable of handling non-payment of taxes.

[palsch]

The penalty was always to be collected by the IRS as part of your federal income tax. Enforcement is the same as any other tax.

[RedKing]

I'm glad these sort of controversial decisions surface from time to time, because it helps me periodically weed my "friend" list on Facebook. Sometimes you just never realize which of your vague acquaintances are frothing loons.

[Andir]

I'm glad these sort of controversial decisions surface from time to time, because it helps me periodically weed my "friend" list on Facebook. Sometimes you just never realize which of your vague acquaintances are frothing loons.

I love how instances like this bring out the elitist name-callers.   Seriously though, I've never heard so many people throw around labels and deride groups of people that don't agree with their viewpoint as much as some people around here.

[RedKing]

I'm glad these sort of controversial decisions surface from time to time, because it helps me periodically weed my "friend" list on Facebook. Sometimes you just never realize which of your vague acquaintances are frothing loons.

I love how instances like this bring out the elitist name-callers.   Seriously though, I've never heard so many people throw around labels and deride groups of people that don't agree with their viewpoint as much as some people around here.

I'm not name-calling them because they disagree. I'm name-calling them because they're typing in all caps and prophesying everything from national bankruptcy to the hand of the Lord smiting Washington D.C.

If that doesn't qualify as "frothing loon", I don't know what does.
But please, feel free to marinate in your self-righteousness.

[KaelGotDwarves]

Andir, if I'm not allowed to make fun of the silly blokes who want to move to Canada because the US now has "socialist healthcare", then why would I want socialist healthcare to live any longer? 

And yes, even on my hippie-tastic fb I've been seeing a few of these - the irony burns.

[scriver]

I'm a healthy strapping young lad and I'd rather have money than insurance. I don't want insurance. Now I have to pay over $600 a year.

All of you have to pay either $600 or 2.5% of your income if that is higher, and unless you're under $24,000 right now, it definitely is more. The exemption is you're making under $9,350 a year. So unless you deliver papers, get ready for a sizeable bite.

Hopefully you all get sick enough to get your money's worth!

If you didn't pay for insurance and got into a car accident, other people would still have to pay for your intensive care. Better you pay for it yourself, and get access to more care while you're on it.

[Mr. Palau]

Why not just stop at this. THERE IS NO ENFORMENT PROVISION IN OBAMA CARE. IT HAS NO INDIVIDUAL MANDATE. THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN MAKE YOU PAY THE FINE. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2864950/posts

I'm not exactly lending much credence to the legal wizardry of the Freepers. This is a "turtles all the way down" kind of argument. The law doesn't need to explicitly set out the penalty for not paying the penalty (because if it did, it would then need to specify the penalty for not paying THAT penalty, and so forth in an infinite recursive loop).

Bottom line: if you owe the government money, they have a variety of mechanisms for recovering it without being explicitly specified in the original statute.

There is no enforment provison.http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2011/11/12/obamacare-insurance-mandate-another-circuit-heard-from/ (paragraph 3)
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/07/obamacare-impact-on-states (see number two, coverage rules, paragraph 7.)

I'm glad these sort of controversial decisions surface from time to time, because it helps me periodically weed my "friend" list on Facebook. Sometimes you just never realize which of your vague acquaintances are frothing loons.

I love how instances like this bring out the elitist name-callers.   Seriously though, I've never heard so many people throw around labels and deride groups of people that don't agree with their viewpoint as much as some people around here.

There is an explicite exemption from traditional IRS proceedings if you do not pay the fine.

[GlyphGryph]

If you didn't pay for insurance and got into a car accident, other people would still have to pay for your intensive care. Better you pay for it yourself, and get access to more care while you're on it.

Actually, this is already works in the US if the other driver is at fault, heh.

And the other option is, of course, simply letting people choose to accept that risk and not treating them if they are uninsured and can't pay. Of course, that presumes it is a choice - but in any decent society that takes care of its poor, it should be.

And isn't, of course, because even the most socialist countries would rather just keep the poor placated and comfortable than help them be less poor...

[RedKing]

Oh hey, now there's more frothing loonery about the bill *requiring* everyone to get microchipped. 
Easily debunked, and yet...

[Andir]

Andir, if I'm not allowed to make fun of the silly blokes who want to move to Canada because the US now has "socialist healthcare", then why would I want socialist healthcare to live any longer? 

And yes, even on my hippie-tastic fb I've been seeing a few of these - the irony burns.

It's not that... the name-calling just seems childish to me.  It happens so frequently here in many... many threads about social/political situations.  I couldn't care less if the person had the lowest IQ in the world and were spouting complete nonsense.  It still seems childish to me to constantly shove that out on a thread as if to stroke your own self ego.  That's what it looks like to me.  Open self idealist masturbation.  ("Oh dear Margaret, look at that pathetic young man trying to push the ball uphill.  Such trivial lunacy!."  "Ho, ho!  You are right Charles.  It's utter inanity.  I'm sure glad we aren't such a trite individual."  *laugh together as they continue walking*)

Everyone complains about social cohesion and helping the less fortunate and when someone shows their lack of education or ignorance on the matter, we point and laugh.  Yeah, that's helping things.

[RedKing]

Yes, how fortunate we are to have you smugly pointing out how childish we are for smugly pointing out people being childish. 

There's lack of education, and then there's willful ignorance. These people aren't saying "I don't understand, why is this a good thing?", they're jumping right in and proclaiming it one of the Seven Seals of the Apocalypse. Sorry if it bothers you, but I'm gonna mock that kind of weapons-grade stupid in a heartbeat.

[Frumple]

Everyone complains about social cohesion and helping the less fortunate and when someone shows their lack of education or ignorance on the matter, we point and laugh.  Yeah, that's helping things.

Well, no. We (in this case, those on all sides of the political spectrum actually willing to engage others) extend our hand and try to help, and get either a metaphysical or literal gun shoved in our face and told to go screw ourselves because,

It's not that there's no attempt at dialectic, it's just that a subset of the political population responds to attempts at dialogue and increased understanding by just yelling that much louder and probably threatening violence. Frothing loon is as good a term as any for that sort.